Yesterday was a sad day for Free Republic

May 3, 2011 | Huck

[Huck]

Yesterday should have been a glorious day around here. There should have been fireworks and celebration. There should have been somber remembrances. There should have been patriotic tributes. There should have been shared joy at the news that our guys had finally gotten Bin Laden.

Instead, when I visited the site, what I found was a lot of carping. I found people focused more on the political spin than on the great news. I found people transferring their birther mentality onto this event, talking about Obama faking this news, photoshopping information, etc. It wasn't everybody, but it was a LOT of people. It made me sick.

Yesterday Free Republic seemed like DU. It makes me wonder what the hell is going on. Are Freepers getting younger? I always assume that DU is so pathetically immature because they must be younger. Free Republic has always been a place dominated by great class, and wit, and decency. Not this time. What I saw yesterday was a pathetic embarrassment and totally unworthy of this great forum.

As some of you may know, I was in lower Manhattan on 9-11. I was just across the street from the WTC when the first plane hit. I still remember the beautiful clear blue sky that day. I remember walking in between the towers just a minute or so before 8:46am, on my normal route to work. I remember my co-workers screaming in panic when they watched from an office window as the second plane hit the south tower. I remember women crying and screaming hysterically. I remember not being able to contact my wife to tell her I was OK. I remember people jumping to their deaths. I remember seeing the north tower go down with my own eyes, hearing it with my own ears. I remember fleeing Manhattan. I remember it was a Tuesday.

I remember returning to work the following Monday, riding the ferry passed the site, noxious smoke still billowing from the wreckage. I remember armed troops on the sidewalks. I remember wearing a breathing mask inside my building because the foul odor was seeping in through the ventilation system. I remember thinking we'd really gotten kicked in the teeth. They had killed innocent people, they had traumatized our women and children, and I really wanted revenge. I hung a picture on my wall of the American eagle sharpening his talons.

It has been a long time since that day. It's hard to believe how fast time flies. Then again, if you lost your loved one, I imagine time hasn't gone so fast. I love my wife so much, I can empathize with anyone who has lost the one they love. I can't imagine how that would be, and don't want to know, but I can cry for those people because I know what it is like to find your one true love.

I'm not an Obama fan. I hate socialism. But I am so happy that Bin Laden is killed, and that we have exacted some real revenge. It's about time. The politics don't even play into it for me. I still have the little flag, now tattered, that I flew on my car antenna after 9-11. I want to take it out of storage and put it on my car. I want to see American flags on cars like we saw back then. But it's not going to happen, and partially because the normally patriotic conservatives such as the ones here on Free Republic are instead focused on the politics and the fact that a socialist Democrat was president and will get some of the credit.

I guess you all would have been pissed on D-Day too. FDR was as big a socialist as anyone. I guess VE day and VJ day would have chapped your hides, since Truman was a DEM. I don't mean to paint with a broad brush. I know it wasn't every Freeper acting this way. But when I went on the board, that was the general impression, and it was really disappointing. It should have been a great day here. Instead, I saw a lack of patriotism and a lack of class. Free Republic should be better than this. If conservatives lose their patriotism and class, then what will happen to those virtues? I hope we can get them back soon. In the meantime, thanks for reading.

Respectfully,

Huck

[Borax Queen]

BTTT, outstanding post.

[cynwoody]

Obama gave photocopies to reporters including 2 images of his alleged BC - one a copy with green security cross-hatches (of which I have not seen a copy so I don’t know if it had a seal on it or not), and one a copy on white paper, having no seal. You tell me: where did that white copy come from?

This one?

That one is AP's black and white scan of the original. The B&W scanning process wiped out the green security pattern, except for faint traces on the certificate's left edge, where the paper curled into the book binding.

Hawaii's procedure, it would seem, is to take the book down off the shelf, photocopy the appropriate page onto green security paper, apply a date stamp, Dr Onaka's declaration and signature stamp, and the official seal. I wouldn't set much store by the seal. Seals can be counterfeited, too, you know.

They really shouldn't bother issuing paper certificates. They should just scan all the certificates into a big database. Then, if someone needs their long form to get a passport or to shut up birthers, the State could just send them a URL with a big long secret number, e.g.,

https://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/?recordid=RnVjayB5b3UsIEJhcmFjayBPYmFtYSE=

Then, the applicant could submit that URL to the State Department or whomever, and they could just fetch the URL, see that it comes from Hawaii (https), and see that the certificate says the applicant was born in Honolulu, so issue the passport or STFU.

[butterdezillion]

What 6 pages were in the packet that the White House gave reporters? List the pages for me.

What makes you think the AP copied that? What scanner did they use?

And the seal is the authenticating mark. You don’t just blow off the seal. That is the equivalent of the purple ink on the finger of the Afghanistani women showing they voted. A physical mark that counts for something. Federal law says that the way the acts and records of one state are recognized as genuine so they have to be honored according to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution is by a raised seal.

That isn’t just fluff; that is the substance. To have a “certified birth certificate” without a seal is like having a marriage without vows. As Wesley told Buttercup in “The Princess Bride”, “If you didn’t say it you didn’t do it”. If the HDOH did not put a seal on the document then they did not certify the document.

[Responsibility2nd]

Someone added post 392 rocks. I disagree. I added some other keywords, but...

I will say that the post by Steel Wolf (for Huck’s position) and fr_freak’s post (against) are truly the best on this thread. Lots of FReepers argee with you both.

We can’t all be right. But you two expressed yourselves very well.

Thank you both.

[sickoflibs]

RE :”Huck, I think what you were witnessing was the collective frustration of folks who have watched this administration basically try to dismantle everything we love for the past two years ...And now, we finally get the b*stard, and it’s FuBO in charge when it happens, and we ALL know he’s going to try to take the credit for it, even though he bascially had ZERO to do with it. We know he saw his chance to improve his poll numbers, and he took it - using the circumstances (”never let a crisis go to waste”) to try to bolster his miserable failure of a presidency.”

To me this is nothing compared to the past Republican party majority/WH that mouthed the words of capitalism and markets while doing the opposite, and with help left the WH with the economy in shambles (2008) and gave Democrats the argument that Obama-socialism has never been tried and will work, Also gave Obama the argument ‘Things were so bad when I took office (WH) that it will take years to dig the country out of it” while he (Obama ) was digging us in deeper.

If Republicans ever get the WH again they need to leave office with a growing economy , a deficit that is shrinking, and a Republican successor so this never happens again.

Let Obama have Bin Laden, his legacy is still a disaster.

[Responsibility2nd]

Someone added post 392 rocks. I disagree. I added some other keywords, but...

I will say that the post by Steel Wolf (for Huck’s position) and fr_freak’s post (against) are truly the best on this thread. Lots of FReepers argee with you both.

We can’t all be right. But you two expressed yourselves very well.

Thank you both.

[DugwayDuke]

You don’t have to be a part of a conspiracy to be a marxist.

I happen to believe Obama wants to ‘transform’ America. I doubt it will be towards capitalism. Like most liberal democrats, I believe Obama would like to create an America which is ‘fairer’, more ‘diverse’, more ‘sustainable’, etc.

Marxist do tend to use those ‘terms’ don’t they?

[Lets Be Frank]

Good point. They would have had to fool our military guys though too. Our military is the only institution that gets paid by taxdollars that I still trust.

[Mr Rogers]

“When Rogesr first started doing the copy/paste thing on the elibigility threads, I chekced his posting history. Up until the day he started the c/p stuff, he posted exclusively about western trivia including westerns, and some very specific Christian theological stuff. I checked dozens and dozens of pages.”

That is not true, but then, I wouldn’t expect you to have checked what was then well over 10,000 posts. I posted more often on military matters than anything else, and got dragged into the Birther Circle-Jerk of Venom & Conspiracies when LTC Lakin refused to obey orders. And I have no idea where you get the idea I have commented extensively on westerns or trivia about them. I have posted pictures of my horses on the religion forum...is that it? Horse = western?

12,000 posts cover a lot of ground. But there are only two places I’ve encountered the vitriol poured out without measure. One is the religion forum, with Calvinists damning me to hell (or calling me a Catholic, which seems to mean the same thing to them), and the second is on the birther threads - usually from the same half dozen bitter losers.

Bin Laden killed by SOF? Must be faked! “Unless I can put my finger in the bullet hole...”

[WOSG]

We spent 5 year and sent 40 seals to get him, and if what we got was someone else, then that is what would be reported. You just haven’t engaged your brain long enough to think through that other possibilities are counterfactual.
Like the guy next door who tweeted the event and the fact that if it is not Bin Laden 40 Seals in an elite professional team have to be in on the joke. Hardly.

“They captured OBL to question him elsewhere and not tell anyone.”
yeah, and monkeys fly out of my butt... actually absurd to make a very public, presidential-speech level ‘we killed him’ the cover story. if they did do that, they would just keep the whole thing secret and the public story would not be OBL dead, but “hey we tried to find him but missed”. In this era of wikileaks, there are no real big secrets that stay secret long. It’s simply a bunch of absurd hypotheticals. And for what purpose? To simply doubt that our DoD and CIA actually did something right?!? Did you doubt for a second the news about getting Saddam?

“Throwing this “conspiracy nut” aspersion around so easily is just as insulting as any other personal attack.”
Nutty is as nutty does. It’s not me doing it, its the media using FR posters as foils for there “Hey, there’s nuts out there who dont belive it” meme ... get this an FR poster gets quoted right after a Taliban spokesman, with the same whine ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-body-picture

This is not snark. This is FR that is getting itself discredited because posters are saying things that are discreditable.

[cynwoody]

What 6 pages were in the packet that the White House gave reporters? List the pages for me.

I dunno. You tell me. Irrelevant and immaterial!

What makes you think the AP copied that? What scanner did they use?

I dunno. Why don't you ask J. Scott Applewhite?

And the seal is the authenticating mark. You don’t just blow off the seal. That is the equivalent of the purple ink on the finger of the Afghanistani women showing they voted. A physical mark that counts for something.

Seals, like documents, can be forged. Purple ink can be washed off.

Federal law says that the way the acts and records of one state are recognized as genuine so they have to be honored according to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution is by a raised seal.

Only if the seal is genuine. If a seal is questioned, the proper recourse is to go back to the alleged applier of the seal. Seal forensics is a waste of time.

[JacksonCalhoun]

I still think the guy is an absolute self-centered buffoon, a menace to our way of life, and an overrated speaker to boot. So I tend to tune him out when he speaks, unless I hear some facts I can use.

But I’m not going to piss all over one of the few good things to happen to this country in a long, long time by engaging in tinfoil crap. This was a great event, because it showed the terrorist scum that they’re not safe, even with this guy in the big chair.

And the facts will speak for themselves, for example, who is going to criticize waterboarding now? Everyone always says “torture doesn’t work, torture doesn’t work”. Well it did this time, took a few years, but George W. Bush will gain as much from the killing of bin Laden as B. Hussein Obama.

[kelly4c]

I agree with you and Huck. I was very disappointed with the overwhelming cynicism. Why do some people want to just snuff out any small joy that might be felt? I saw a lot of what were probably mostly liberals, as they looked like college students etc., who gathered outside and cheered and shouted USA yet conservatives are sulking in the tin foil sheds.

[Cowman]

Nuts

Mcauliffe?

[little jeremiah]

Such excellent comments I am copying below:

---

WC Fields — a great American too — is reputed to have said “Never give a sucker an even break.”

There’s a corollary for dealing with the arrogant con-man: “Never give a con-man a single word of good credit because he’ll use your credit in that one word to con many more.”

A man wise to the con gives Obama no credit at all.

Dubya got sucked into TARP I, that was also a con. By being conned — even if that TARP I worked out — he set us all up for the total disasters of TARP II, OBAMACARE etc.

[WOSG]

The most ridiculous speculation and repetition of falsehoods has been permitted, perhaps even encouraged, as long as they reflect poorly on Obama.

That's an excellent way of putting it. It's an excellent way of describing why politics always seems ugly and why I've always disliked the left. For them, the ends justify the means. So they lie, cheat, say whatever, hurt whomever, all "for the cause".

I thought conservatives were better than that, and have sometimes been proud of Republicans who were "class acts" instead of using any pretext to smash-mouth the other side. Folks like former President Bush for example.

We may win some tactical short-term advantage from using whatever false allegations, rumors, etc., at our disposal. But it's a great way to win a battle but lose the war. Especially when part of the war is the very decency of our culture and a desire to NOT make everything about Political Correctness.

Whatever we do, we should stick to the truth as we see it. Dont latch on to assuming the worst in everything Obama, or anyone else, says or does just because he says or does it. Figure out the truth and stand by it.

[little jeremiah]

People have called me many things on FR. Especially those who don’t like my comments. But I’ve never been mistaken for a troll from DU. I still think “substances” are part of the picture.

[kelly4c]

I don’t think it is as much “celebrating” his death as it is feeling a sense of justice being served for all Americans who died at the hands of this monster! I’m a christian too, and while I’m not “happy” when someone who’s going to hell is killed, I do believe in the concept of free will. Usama CHOSE to be/do evil. For whomever ends up in hell it is because God apparently believes he deserves hell. And I don’t think this is about “Obama. We can rejoice in the fact that a terrorist was removed from this earth and thus preventing more deaths of innocent people without having to bring the “we hate Obama” politics into it imo. The latter sentiment is already well known.

[Steel Wolf]

I don't know that there's anything in post 162 I really disagree with, or that conflicts with post 392. Cloward/Piven, intentionally through malice or unintentionally through incompetence, is rapidly eroding America from the inside. Fr_freak is most certainly right about where we're heading. What will likely happen in a few years in American cities will make our worst days in Baghdad and Mosul look like vacations. And we had some pretty bad days.

That really has nothing to do with the successful raid on UBL this weekend. That's the trap many FReepers find themselves in. If you view everything through the prism of Obama running America aground, and it warps your perspective. Obama could cure cancer, and people would be upset because it would help his reelection odds. That's not a healthy way to live.

Some might feel like the imminent crash is reason to abandon reason, cut dialogue with society at large, and head to the trenches early. When that day comes, I'll be there, showing you all how to swing. ;-)

Still, future events notwithstanding, today is a good day to be an American, and a bad day to be an Islamic terrorist. My hat's off to JSOC, and (SIGINT gods forgive me) the HUMINT derived from the CIA. If Obama did nothing but authorize the hit, then he finally did something right in his miserable life.

I personally don't think it's particularly noble to hate on an American military success because you don't like the domestic policies of the politician who authorized it. That's a point lefties needed to hear several years ago, and one that some on the right need to hear today. Nobility aside, if suspecting JSOC (the most conservative part of a conservative military) of being party to an illegal and easily disprovable scam to politically benefit President Obama is what passes for "intelligent" these days, I'm glad to be considered an idiot.

[little jeremiah]

Anyone is free to read everyones’ posting history.

Fortunately on FR we can’t edit our comments once posted, as on some sites.