Posted on 09/14/2010 8:41:10 AM PDT by ventanax5
Prime Minister Netanyahu has called upon Palestinian leaders to recognize the right of the Jewish people to national self-determination – "two states for two nations." But are Palestinian Arabs a nation, or a people? What is "Palestinian national identity" based on? Although taken for granted today, Palestinianism has neither a long, nor distinguished history, which may explain why the peace process between Israel and the Arabs has failed and will continue to fail.
Palestinianism, inherently meant only one thing: the rejection of a Jewish state in any form. A few elite Arab intellectuals did talk about Palestinianism, but it was not widely accepted. As Columbia University Professor Rashid Khalidi shows in his book on the subject, not until Zionists began settlements did local Arabs seek an alternative.
(Excerpt) Read more at ynetnews.com ...
Who Are Palestinians?
By Yashiko Sagamori
If you are so sure that "Palestine, the country, goes back through most of recorded history", I expect you to be able to answer a few basic questions about that country of Palestine:
You are lamenting the "low sinking" of "once proud" nation. Please tell me, when exactly was that "nation" proud and what was it so proud of? And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you mistakenly call "Palestinians" are anything but generic Arabs collected from all over -- or thrown out of -- the Arab world, if they really have a genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their devastating defeat in the Six Day War? I hope you avoid the temptation to trace the modern day "Palestinians" to the Biblical Philistines: substituting etymology for history won't work here. The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. Arab countries have never abandoned the dream of destroying Israel; they still cherish it today. Having time and again failed to achieve their evil goal with military means, they decided to fight Israel by proxy. For that purpose, they created a terrorist organization, cynically called it "Palestinian people" and installed it in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. How else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally accept back the "West Bank" and Gaza, respectively? The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have much less claim to nationhood than that Indian tribe that successfully emerged in Connecticut with the purpose of starting a tax-exempt casino: at least that tribe had a constructive goal that motivated them. The so called "Palestinians" have only one motivation: the destruction of Israel, and in my book that is not sufficient to consider them a "nation" -- or anything else except what they really are: a terrorist organization that will one day be dismantled. In fact, there is only one way to achieve piece in the Middle East. Arab countries must acknowledge and accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side should, pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation they have visited on it. The most appropriate form of such reparations would be the removal of their terrorist organization from the land of Israel and accepting Israel's ancient sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. That will mark the end of the Palestinian people. What are you saying again was its beginning? You are absolutely correct in your understanding of the "Palestinians'" murderous motives. I am afraid however that you, along with 99% of the population of this planet have missed the beginning of WWIII (the enemy call it Jihad) quite a few years ago. The siege of the US embassy in Tehran in 1979, an event to which the latest Nobel Peace Prize winner had so miserably failed to respond, can be very well used as the day WWIII stepped out of the pages of the Koran and into the current events. I pray the United States and Israel lead the world to victory in this war. Come to think of it, there is no choice, be you a Christian, a Jew, or even, believe it or not, a Muslim. http://www.middleeastfacts.com/Articles/Yashiko/Palestinians.shtml?p=Yashiko/Palestinians |
Aren’t the Pali’s actually the Philistines of the Bible?
My understanding is that they are just the cultural rejects of other Arab/Muslim countries, especially Jordan,
and that they _picked_ the name “Palestinians” as the modern version of Israel’s old enemies the Philistines.
No. Not at all, except that the modern word has its origins in the ancient one.
The modern Palis are Arabs. "Palestine" is not an Arabic word. That is a pretty good indication that they until recently had nothing to do with each other.
ML/NJ
No. Not at all, except that the modern word has its origins in the ancient one.
The modern Palis are Arabs. "Palestine" is not an Arabic word. That is a pretty good indication that they until recently had nothing to do with each other.
ML/NJ
Thank You, they have managed to convolute their history to the point where most forget who they REALLY are in a historical sense.
HUMMM, lends credence to the theory that the Philistines had Greek origins. didn’t the Egyptians call them the SEA People?
National and ethnic identities are purely a mental construct. If enough people believe that they are a nation, they probably are. For instance, English national identity didn’t exist before Alfred the Great. The Irish, Scots and Welsh never referred to themselves as “celts” until the 18th century when a Scotsman popularized the term as a reaction to English supremacy. Even in the 19th Century, some Americans believed that they were Virginians or Texans before they were Americans. National identity is a malleable thing and is constantly being redefined and invented.
Historically, Palestine was divided into two territories. A sliver for the jewish palestinians, which was renamed “Israel”, and the remainder for the arab palestinians, which was renamed “Jordan”.
Jordan is arab palestine, and Israel is jewish palestine.
In other words, there already is a two state solution; the two states already exist. The only question is what to do with the arabs on the land that Israel won from Jordan during the 1967 war. The answer is not another independent arab state; such a state sandwiched between Israel and Jordan is not viable as an independent state. There will never be an independent arab west bank, quite simply because it is not viable. It has no independent economy, no markets, no jobs, no nothing that allows it to exist separate from Israel or Jordan.
Its future needs to be worked out between Jordan and Israel. No one else has any standing in the question. Israel should not treat the PA as a national entity, nor should anyone else, because it is not and never will be.
bm
The only reason that Jordan maintains any credibility of civilization is the absence of the massive ‘Palestinian’ population Jordan rejected decades ago. Should the Hashemite King allow the ‘Palestinians’ to be integrated into Jordanian civilization that civilization will cease to exist. The Arabs have cultivated the backwardness of the ‘Palestinians’ and sustained their poverty as the Arab solution to avoiding absorption of these primitive people.
Jordanians are palestinians. Jordan is Palestine. They try to obscure that fact in order to escape two issues. First, to escape their responsibility for the west bank and second, to obscure the fact that they are ruled by a royal family that is not palestinian. The royal family is from Mecca (not Saud, but from Mecca, they were the original kings of Mecca). They were given Jordan as a consolation prize when they lost Mecca and the Sauds took it over.
They did expel Arafat and his PLO, slaughtered them like dogs. Arafat himself was egyptian and his PLO were a threat to the Jordanians as much as to anyone else. But they didn’t expel the palestinians, they “are” palestinians.
Arafat’s claim to represent palestinians was an existential threat to the Hashemite king and they booted the PLO out with no mercy, which is when they went to Lebanon and took it over.
You can ask it in another way too. For now ignore all the other Arabs but just focus on the Arabs of Jordan.
Is there even an iota of difference between those Arabs who call themselves Palestinian and those that call themselves Jordanian (ruling family excepted but I’ll get to that).
They are related sometimes as close as siblings. Same language. Same religion. Same every single thing.
If they already have a nation called Jordan - in two thirds of mandatory Palestine- why do they deserve a second- or third if Gaza is separate.
The rulers of Jordan, the Hashamites, were imported by the British from Arabia. That family is so diluted today by British and American blood that they are hardly Arabs. And if they are, well guess what, the current Queen is called a Palestinian.
Watch the movie Exodus, produced in 1960. No one blinked an eye when the only people called Palestinians in that movie are the Paul Newman character and the other Jews. Arabs are never called Palestinian, because no one in the period of the movie- 1948- or when it was made called Arabs Palestinians. They were called simply Arabs.
You can use that date as a benchmark. Only seven years later, after the 1967 war, when Israel won the territory the Arabs held unlawfully for 19 years without creating another Arab Palestinian State was Palestinian nationalism born with plane hijackings, terror and murder.
Palestinian nationalism is a construct of Western appeasement in the face of terror. That first creeping then accelerating appeasement has led us directly to 9/11 and our ever increasing genuflecting to Islam.
Thank you. No.
Palestine was divided into two territories. Jewish palestine was renamed "Israel" and arab palestine was renamed "Jordan". They prefer to obscure this, now, for political reasons, and also to obscure the fact that they have a foreign royal family. Arafat was an existential threat to the Jordanian government because of his claim to represent palestinians. If he represents palestinians, then the Hashemites lose their throne. Which is why they drove him out without mercy.
Jordan is arab palestine. Israel is jewish palestine.
I’d like to hear Netanyahu’s reasoning, why he thinks that a 2-state solution (as currently envisioned) would gain peace. Why Israel has to dance backwards all the time.
Why he doesn’t demand — or even suggest — that Jordan provide the Palis with a state. Or Egypt.
He’s morphing.
Reminds me of an old saying, about how if you pound on something living, it gets tougher, but if you pound on something dead, it gets softer.
The Greeks may have invented the word "Philistine," (I really think Herodotus used the word "Palestine.") but that was how they identified a distinct group of non-Greeks.
As for the "People of the Sea," there is at least some doubt as to who they were. Velikovsky thinks they were Persians. (Also see: here.)
ML/NJ
It was the Romans who did this.
ML/NJ
ML/NJ
Thank You for the info. Interesting subject in light of the current events.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.