Posted on 08/30/2010 6:33:31 AM PDT by Jenny Hatch
Visalia, Calif. • A Mormon church official was shot dead between services on Sunday, and less than an hour later, the man suspected of the crime also died after a shootout with police.
Clay Sannar, 42, a lay bishop with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Visalia, southeast of Fresno, died after being shot in his office, said Visalia police chief Colleen Mestas.
Soon after the first shooting, a caller identified himself to police as the shooter. Police responded, and there was a confrontation with several shots exchanged, said Mestas.
The suspect was hit multiple times. He was taken to nearby Kaweah Delta Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead. He has not been identified yet. No officers were injured, Mestas said.
Tulare County sheriff’s deputies are taking over the investigation of the shootout involving the police officers. The sheriff’s department did not immediately return calls for comment.
Visalia police continue to investigate Sannar’s shooting, but have not identified a motive.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
Well, no but the job description is similar.
True but I was full of hope...
Yes, I believe repentance includes forsaking and abandoning sin. Jesus did command us to be “perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect” (Matt: 5:48)
I also believe that God judges us us according to our desires as well as our works:
“For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.” (Doctrine and Covenants 137:9)
“And it is requisite with the justice of God that men should be judged according to their works; and if their works were good in this life, and the desires of their hearts were good, that they should also, at the last day, be restored unto that which is good (Book of Mormon, Alma 41:3)
Our disposition regarding other people also seems to play an important part in how God will judge us:
“Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy” (Matthew 5:7)
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses” (Matthew 6:14-15)
Since no one is going to be faultless in this life, I believe the mercies of Christ will be sufficient for those who are honestly striving to overcome sin and follow Christ’s example and teachings.
Best regards,
Normandy
I couldn't agree more. It has been revealing.
Pastor Jim Wilson from the Community Christian Ministries in Moscow, Idaho has a great analogy when discussing bitterness. When a teacup is jostled and acid comes out, you learn a truth: the acid was always there. It just took the jostling to reveal it.
Now you are at a catch 22 norm, you've already admitted that your works are spoiled because of sin and your doctrine clearly states the results of that sin - D & C 1:31-32: “For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.
Alma 41:3
Works done in sin - pure and acceptable? If good intentions / desires of the heart are all that is necessary, then the many pieces of your scripture are invalid. You have two separate standards of being judged norm. You have the high standard of a perfect, sinless life - or you just have good intentions and God gives you a pass.
Since no one is going to be faultless in this life, I believe the mercies of Christ will be sufficient for those who are honestly striving to overcome sin and follow Christ’s example and teachings.
Alma makes it clear that you CANNOT be saved in your sins, D&C and Alma makes it clear that the "Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance” and Rom 6:23 tell us that the wages (results) of sin is (spiritual) death.
You are basing a lot of hope on how God will view your works and good intentions. Isaiah wrote: 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
If you were to break out a lexicon, the english "filthy rags" more accurately refers to menstrual cloths. That does not bode well for your hopes that God will favorably judge your works CONTRARY to your sinful condition.
Again norm, even seeking God's mercy to judge your works and good intentions as some counter balance to the unforgiven sin in your life doesn't give me any reason to seek out mormonism - in fact it makes matters worse and raises other questions - just how 'good' do my works have to be in order to counter the unforgiven sin. If just doing works and having good intentions is all that is needed, why worry about perfection if God will give a pass?
I am also proud of the way the Church is responding to this tragedy - with love, understanding, forgiveness and kindness.
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But no cassorole dishes...
well that says a lot...
Both his father and his brother have said there was no “abuse.”
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His father and his brother are still trapped in morm onism...
They will say anythingh that will win them approval of the mormon masters..
Mormonism is a cult ...
Its like Stockholm Syndrome...
The father and the brother dont dare tell the truth...
well that says a lot...
ROTFL...I needed THAT!
Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God.
You are not a Prophet.
I would never be so presumptuous as to believe for one nano second that I know who is going to hell .
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Why not ???
You deont seem to have any trouble knowing who is a prophet...
The other cant be that much of a jump...
In fact the other has to be much easier for such a mormon prophet as you...
Pastor Wilson sounds like a wise man.
You know, after all this, the sad thing is a presumedly (I don’t know him so am assuming he was) good man was gunned down for no apparent reason. A widow and family are grieving, a ward is grieving, I grieve because it was a senseless and baseless act that caused great harm to a good family.
A good friend of mine, a mormon, was taken not too long ago by a motorcycle crash. He was “lucky” at first, just a broken leg. Yet, an undiscovered blood clot traveled from his leg up to his heart and killed him while he was in the hospital for observation. My point, we don’t know God’s reasons for allowing these things to happen to good people. His reasons are His own.
A real result of this thread however is that when the mormons and their “friends” took this tragedy and attempted to turn it against us they were the ones who stepped out of the shadows and put their worst on display for all to see.
Unfortunately for them, it backfired. They ended being the ones “frothing at the mouth” about us “anti’s”. If it weren’t for their “friends” and their own foot in mouth disease, I do believe many, if not all of us “anti’s” would have offered our condolences and support, yet were never really offered a real chance to do so.
I guess I was lucky and was able to. Then I came across their “friends’” posts referencing us for no reason whatsoever except to take a cheap and childish shot because none have been able to win on merit alone.
The sad thing is, judging from the comments on this and other threads, they’re beginning to believe their own rhetoric. They are actually beginning to believe (if they don’t already) that it’s about them personally, not the religion, the doctrine, an inanimate entity that has no feelings.
My condolences not only to the family of the Bishop and their friends, but to you mormons who posted your screeds here as well. I will pray for you all.
SZ
... what you said.
Excellent response SZ
Nicely stated
And you know they are lying because......
Given the ample evidence in the thread there is no realistic way you could refute it...
Do you have a Temple Recommend®?
There you go again; trying to use logic to show that MORMONism cannot make any sense.
--MormonBube(How would YOU feel if we said that PRESBYTERIANism was UNTRUE?)
...the FACTS don't match the rhetoric.
I can back up my beliefs, and I have here on FR for a long time, I did take a year off at my wife's request while I helped out a friend. Time's up. I'm back.
BTW, I like Samuel Adams will pray with anyone, I'm no bigot.
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