Posted on 08/30/2010 6:33:31 AM PDT by Jenny Hatch
Visalia, Calif. • A Mormon church official was shot dead between services on Sunday, and less than an hour later, the man suspected of the crime also died after a shootout with police.
Clay Sannar, 42, a lay bishop with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Visalia, southeast of Fresno, died after being shot in his office, said Visalia police chief Colleen Mestas.
Soon after the first shooting, a caller identified himself to police as the shooter. Police responded, and there was a confrontation with several shots exchanged, said Mestas.
The suspect was hit multiple times. He was taken to nearby Kaweah Delta Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead. He has not been identified yet. No officers were injured, Mestas said.
Tulare County sheriff’s deputies are taking over the investigation of the shootout involving the police officers. The sheriff’s department did not immediately return calls for comment.
Visalia police continue to investigate Sannar’s shooting, but have not identified a motive.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
I agree with the scripture from Alma, Godzilla — however it pertains to those who know about the the fulness of the gospel. The Book of Mormon chronicles the affairs of a people who had the fullness of the gospel, and in this passage Amulek is speaking to a group of people who have been taught the gospel and who have rejected it.
What about the billions who have lived and died without a knowledge of the gospel of Christ. Does God condemn them to eternal damnation because they happened to live in a time and place where the knowledge of God was not available to them?
We believe not — that all will receive an equal chance to accept Christ whether in this world or the world to come.
Regards,
Normandy
Personal attack eh? I won’t complain though. Your statement is false though. I have never been dishonest on this board. Shame on you. And I admitted the conclusion jumping already you must have missed it.
and we will stick with anti-Christians when referring to mormons...
Ok fine. That’s oxymoronic though. =-)
I know it's difficult to do given the training so I am appreciative of your success.
Sad you devalue it by failing back to your old ways, but one must walk before they run.
BTW a hint, admitting that you jumped to conclusion whilst at the same time trying to proof the conclusion was true despite the evidence to the contrary really is a zero sum game. Kind of like being wrong and admitting to it but then saying "but I wasn't", you pretty much end up where you started...
I will have a new thread soon to address your old and tired anti-Mormon propaganda. You could find all this on your own if your seriously had any interest though.
Sounds like the statements that would be made by any enemy of Christ, something that is pretty “anti-Christian”...
It is all right here free for everyone to see:
http://www.fairlds.org
http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/
http://www.fairlds.org
http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/
(pssst, btw your eyes are not deceiving you, those are LDS/Mormon owned sites, ironic huh?)
No personal attack, I called you no names nor patronized you in any way. Indeed I complimented you on making a valid and true statement.
I know it’s difficult to do given the training so I am appreciative of your success.
Sad you devalue it by failing back to your old ways, but one must walk before they run.
BTW a hint, admitting that you jumped to conclusion whilst at the same time trying to proof the conclusion was true despite the evidence to the contrary really is a zero sum game. Kind of like being wrong and admitting to it but then saying “but I wasn’t”, you pretty much end up where you started...
I was about to try again but I think you just don’t care. The truth of the matter doesn’t fit into your agenda so you choose to not see it I guess.
On the other subject, you did personal attack when you basically said I have been dishonest. Pretty simple. “Wow. Finally something honest from you” I believe was what you said. tsk tsk
That’s ok. We all get a little riled from time to time. We may accidentally say something like that or jump to conclusion even. ;-)
But while we wait for your bold and creative rebuttal, for the undecided readers, for those with serious interests, I give you the sources for that “old tired anti Mormon propaganda” Paragon Defender is going to destroy for us:
http://www.fairlds.org
http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/
(pssst, btw your eyes are not deceiving you, those are LDS/Mormon owned sites, ironic huh?)
hey thanks!
Wow pro-Mormon info from Mormons! What a shocker!! Just like I am so shocked that all the anti-Mormon stuff on these boards is from.......... wait for it...... Anti-Mormons! (anti-Mormonism activists for those of you that think there’s a diff)
Yet another in a long list of non-issues.
I am glad you kept the list. You should check them out some time. =-)
BTW PD, you made the statement earlier that you have not been dishonest on these threads.
Well here is the problem with that.
You know fully well that Colofornian through affiliation with the LDS as well as their use of Mormon doctrine and scripture in combating the cult is very familiar with same and has a vested interested the information. Colorfornia HAS found it on their own and found it lacking just as many serious and intelligent folks before them. Same thing you have done to me when you accuse me of not reading this material time and time again DESPITE me telling you 6 times now point blank that I have. Indeed my BOM is sitting next to my chair in the den, booked marked from its last use.
I know it is part of your game plan, to catch that odd lurker and make it look like we are walking in ignorance and you are going to enlighten us with information we have never seen before, but really, you know different and continuing the argument and the implication is dishonest.
So how are we to gage your other words...
BTW, you again accuse me of not reading the material.
That is 7 times I have told you otherwise...
No, you are not dishonest, not at all.
I understand what you are saying. If someone has read the info and still disagrees then fine but it’s not like there is no answer to the regurgitated objections out there.
You don’t have to explain, it was obvious from the get go. That you feel the need to spin it is on you.
The sentiment is quite mutual.
BTW, you again accuse me of not reading the material.
That is 7 times I have told you otherwise...
No, you are not dishonest, not at all.
You say you have read it yet you act as if there is no other explanation but yours. It leads me to wonder. Hardly dishonest. Presumptous perhaps.
Funny that the perpretators of all the anti-Mormon propaganda try to call out someone else as dishonest. The strawman arguments made alone are overwhelming. Again, all easily addressed at the links provided.
Our pastor once said - "the devil comes to church every Sunday".
Had you taken the time to actually go back and start reading from the beginning, you would find out differently. You have yet to prove otherwise, until then, put a cork in it.
You had no credibility to begin with. Your posting history (or should I say LACK of it) is evidence enough of your duplicitous and hypocritical behavior.
Bearing false witness = lying for the lord mormon style.
Correct, thanks for pointing that out.
I now know what can be expected from certain FReepers in the future, this thread has been a treasure trove, the exposure of how some really believe and feel. No more cover to hide behind.
It’s been quite enlightening.
Hope you have a nice day as well.
I’m not surprised you’ve taken this approach. Seeing as how you and the other mormons would lose some of your outside support if you had the balls to actually challenge the assertions made by other FReepers.
Like I said before, accusing or implying that another FReeper could have been thought to have been responsible for this man’s actions is beneath contempt. What’s even more informative is the complete lack of condemnation (ergo support for) of said comments or behavior.
You mormons have done more than we could have ever hoped for. By hiding behind parsed words and sentences, twisting and dancing in some instances to afford one’s self plausible deniability, demonstrates the true nature of you all here on FR.
I have not, nor will I ever play “Bill Clinton word games”, go talk to the first two of your defenders who were doing that in the first 50 or so posts. Then go talk to one of your fellow mormons who asked what the FReeper name was of the shooter.
If you have the courage and the balls to do so and to address those you’re actually referring to, get back with me.
The respect goes both ways, if you can’t afford to demonstrate it, let me know and we can get back to the confrontational methods used before.
The ball is in your court PD
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