NYT: At Lincoln Memorial, a Call for Religious Rebirth (Crowd Estimate)

New York Sl/imes ^ | 8/28/2010 | KATE ZERNIKE and CARL HULSE

[GVnana]

WASHINGTON — An enormous and impassioned crowd rallied at the steps of the Lincoln Memorial on Saturday, summoned by Glenn Beck, a conservative broadcaster who called for a religious rebirth in America at the site where the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. delivered his famous “I Have a Dream” speech 47 years ago to the day.

“Something that is beyond man is happening,” Mr. Beck said in opening the event as the crowd thronged near the memorial grounds. “America today begins to turn back to God.”

It was part religious revival, part history lecture, as Mr. Beck invoked the founding fathers and the “black-robed regiment” of pastors of the Revolutionary War and spoke of American exceptionalism.

-snip-

Officials do not make crowd estimates because they are unreliable and can be controversial, but event organizers put the number of attendees at 500,000; NBC News said it was closer to 300,000, but by any measure it was a large turnout. The crowd stretched from the Lincoln Memorial to the Washington Monument.

[Colofornian]

...you either supported what Glenn Beck did with this event or you didn't. Peeling off a particular religious sect for cheap shots in an event of this nature is akin to marginalizing our founding fathers because you do not agree with their particular brand of religion or the fact that they had personal imperfections.

I once went through a challenging experience with a group of people who were mostly Christians. One, however, was a Moonie. He was very conservative. He was pro-life. He was a man of deep conviction, who was willing to risk himself on behalf of others.

Obviously we didn't ask him what his religion was when we first came to know him. We worked together on behalf of the pre-born. But had this man put together a regional rally where he threw out the name of Jesus and the "Messiah" left and right, I would immediately question who he meant by that name.
#1 The only difference between the Moonie "jesus" and the rest of us, says, Sun Myung Moon, is that Jesus had no original sin nature. Other than that, Moonies don't give all that much transcendence & uniqueness to Jesus Christ.
#2 In fact, so much so, that Moonies believe that Sun Myung Moon himself is another Messiah and is "Lord of the Second Advent."

Vig Man, you see why terms like "God" and "Jesus Christ" and "Messiah" in today's high-redefinition culture actually mean something?

When you have a rep from a cult who defines Jesus and God 180 from you, then we reserve a right to question, "Who was Beck talking about there?" It's not simply a matter of your accusatory nature of "peeling off a particular religious sect for cheap shots". We have a right to understand who Beck is trying to convey who his God is; who his Jesus is.

Just as Moon claims to be another Messiah, Jesus warned false Messiahs would be presented (Matthew 24). And you know Jesus can be treated as Gumby, twisted out of shape so that He is no longer recognizable.

* The "Jesus" of the Marharishi of Transcendental Meditation (TM) is a Jesus who never suffered.
* The "Jesus" of Guru Maharaj Ji supposedly merged with Krishna, Ram and Buddha.
* The "Jesus" of Christian Science think of themselves as "Christian," yet they don't believe Jesus is God.
* The "Jesus" of the Jehovah's Witnesses is not Almighty and is "a god," but not "THE" God; nor did He bodily resurrect.
* The "Jesus" of many gnostics would in no way incarnate a human body -- because that to them would be too "corrupt" of a thing to do.
* The "Jesus" of Brigham Young is one redeemer-savior among who knows how many? "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?...Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870) [Tell us, PD, what makes Brigham's "jesus" so universally unique?]
* The "Jesus" of Mormonism is a pre-existent spirit-creature; a son of a God-man whose next-in-line brother is "Lucifer/Satan" -- a "Jesus" who had to work out his own salvation; and whose blood didn't cover all of our personal sins (thereby rendering him as an incomplete, inadequate "savior").

Tell, us, Vigilanteman, How can all these "Jesuses" be the same One? How can we have...
...a Jesus who suffers & a TM "Jesus" who doesn't?
...a Jesus who resurrects bodily & a JW "Jesus" who doesn't?
...a Jesus who transcends us in every way & a Moonie "Jesus" who only transcends us sin-wise?
...a Jesus who is united with the Father & the Spirit vs. a Hindu offshoot/New Age "Jesus" who merges as part of a divine flame or divine ocean?
...THE fully-God, fully-man incarnate son of God vs. a less-than-human embodied gnostic "Jesus"?
...a Jesus who is THE Savior vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who competes with ALL kinds of "saviors" on other planets (per Brigham) & ALL kinds of "saviors" on THIS planet (per Lds "prophet" John Taylor's description of Baptism of the dead "saviors")??
...a Jesus who is THE Creator vs. a Mormon "Jesus," a mere spirit-creature from eternity past?
...a Jesus who is THE Savior vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who is touted by Lds leaders as a "saved being?"
...a Jesus who created Lucifer (Col. 1:16-17) vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who "lucked out" on being ahead of Lucifer spirit-birth assembly line, only because of spirit-birth order???
...a Jesus who died BOTH for our sin nature AND ALL of our personal sins vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who didn't?

By your bland religiosity, Vig, we'd have to define JWs, Christian Science, Moonies, New Age adherents, & all the rest as "Christians," too! And all of this from an Lds ally who might have trouble even accepting the fLDS as "Mormon?"

(Good luck with sorting out who is the real Jesus is then with such a one-world religion)

[Saundra Duffy]

I have told you many times what I believe. I believe the LDS Articles of Faith. That is what I believe, not what you think I believe or what you say I believe. This is what I believe: The LDS Articles of Faith. I dare not post them here, however, because the last time I posted the LDS Articles of Faith, they were blasphemed, overwritten with trash, and used for toilet paper.

The anti Mormons on this site are making fools of themselves but that is your prerogative; it’s still a free country.

[Colofornian]

Mr Beck also kept talking about a stick and a man and a stick...Joey Smith and his stick...the book of mormon...Do I get an A ???'

You get an A+ (Provided an apple computer is on my desk by a.m.)

Indeed, Mormons based upon Smith's own claim, wrestle Ezekiel 37:19 out of context and claim that when Ezekiel said "I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand" -- that somehow "the stick of Judah" and the "stick of Joseph" is a prophetic reference to a future Smith character and are thereby representative of the Bible & Book of Mormon as one combined testimony to the Mormon Christ.

So good pick-up, TN. Beck intentionally used the reference to "stick" in this covert, camouflaged manner--insinuating that just as Moses led people out of bondage using a "stick" -- Joseph Smith led people out of bondage with the Book of Mormon "stick."

As for the proper interpretation of Eze 37:19, these sticks referenced were actual sticks -- not "scrolls" as Mormons re-interpret them to be. The context, if you also read Isaiah 37:19-23, who was a contemporary of Ezekiel, is that these sticks represent the split nation of Israel which was to become one nation -- not two. The clear Hebrew meaning of the word is a piece of cutwood...In fact, it was translated "planks" in Eze. 41:25 and "timber" in Eze 26:12...but never no mind to Mormons, who just LOVE to twist & distort & engage in vicious abtraction to wrestle all things out of context!

Nowhere, but nowhere in the Bible is a "stick" used to symbolize a "scroll."

[Elsie]

 

That is the most ridiculous thing I think I’ve ever read on FR.

 

Here!  Try THESE words to read!!

 

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 89

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327–329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.

 

1–9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10–17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18–21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.

 

  1 A ^aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—

  2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the ^aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and ^bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—

  3 Given for a principle with ^apromise, adapted to the capacity of the ^bweak and the weakest of all ^csaints, who are or can be called saints.

  4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of ^aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of ^bconspiring men in the last days, I have ^cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

  5 That inasmuch as any man ^adrinketh ^bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

  6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, ^apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

  7 And, again, ^astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

  8 And again, tobacco is not for the ^abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

  9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

  10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome ^aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—

  11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with ^aprudence and ^bthanksgiving.

  12 Yea, ^aflesh also of ^bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used ^csparingly;

  13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be ^aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or ^bfamine.

  14 All ^agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;

  15 And ^athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.

  16 All grain is good for the ^afood of man; as also the ^bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—

  17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

  18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ^ashall receive ^bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;

  19 And shall ^afind ^bwisdom and great ^ctreasures of ^dknowledge, even hidden treasures;

  20 And shall ^arun and not be ^bweary, and shall walk and not faint.

  21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the ^adestroying angel shall ^bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

---

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

Cult:
Short for OCCULT - meaning hidden.

The MORMON Temple Rituals® are HIDDEN from public veiw.

They say they are SO sacred.

I say, "Show me them in your SCRIPTURE" and then I might believe they are SACRED and not just SECRET.

[Elsie]

I believe Mr. Beck, for whom I have great regard and appreciation, had nothing but the purest intents for our country on Saturday. I do not believe he wants to be America’s spiritual guru, I believe he is a dad who fears for his children’s future and is using the blessings of his life to do all he can to improve the chances for them.

I totally agree.

[Elsie]

It would be great if Beck was in a Christian Church. But alas.....

ALAS??

NO!! --- Hallelujah!!

We have SEEN, right here on FR, the POWER of Jehovah GOD to remove blinders from MORMONs and set them on the NARROW path!

Szonian and others were CHALLENGED by us narrow-minded BIGOTS to prove MORMONism's claims to themselves.

The rest is history.

Perhaps some 'well meaning MORMONs' will get to Glenn and say, "You ought to hear what some NUTS on FR are saying about you."

---

As Paul Harvey would say, "Now hear the REST of the story..."

[Colofornian]

I just asked a real simple "yes" or "no" question. I don't expect you to elaborate a complete belief system.

I simply asked you if you believe as Joseph Smith stated, and what is in Mormon "scriptures", if you believe the Mormon church to be the only true church on the face of the earth?

Mormon "scripture" reference: Doctrine & Covenants 1:30

You can simply answer "yes" -- or "no" -- since this is a relevant Q to what you raised earlier -- that the Lord is NOW separating wheat from tares.

IOW, are "wheat" in your mind only members or future members of the Mormon church? (And thereby everybody else is a tare)

So if you simply answer "yes" and "yes" I'll interpret that "yes, you believe what D&C 1:30 says -- the Mormon church is the ONLY true church on the face of the earth." And the second "yes" would be: "Yes, you have to be an (eventual) member of the Mormon church to be considered as wheat".

If you can't answer such simple yes-no questions, I'll consider you evasive.

[lonestar]

I’m not big on organized religion...because too much time is spent raising $$$ to pay for big buildings! The one I grew up in burned several years ago and we built a bigger one to replace it, and we have fewer members than we had 25 years ago.

[Rennes Templar]

lol Whats so ridiculous? Those are general macrobiotic health guidelines that have been observed in the orient for millenia.

[Elsie]

Christians need to leave the religious part out of the news/activism part. After all, that is why God made Free Republic with both sections. ;O)

And never the twain to meet??

---

Deuteronomy 6:4-9

 ⁴ Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

 ⁵ You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

 ⁶ These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.

 ⁷ You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

 ⁸ You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead.

 ⁹ You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.

---

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Matthew 22

 ¹And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

 ²The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

 ³And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

 ⁴Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

 ⁵But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

 ⁶And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

 ⁷But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

 ⁸Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

 ⁹Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

 ¹⁰So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

 ¹¹And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

 ¹²And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

 ¹³Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 ¹⁴For many are called, but few are chosen.

 

---

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FR is my DOORPOST and my HIGHWAY...

[ejonesie22]

Really?

Making fools of ourselves?

Let see, we post facts and doctrine from LDS source that cannot be defended by the LDS and their questionable “allies”.

We demonstrate dramatically more knowledge of LDS doctrine then rank and file members such as yourself who are proven wrong again again in your statements by excerpts directly from LDS doctrine and other LDS works.

We handily take care of the enablers, the professionally trained apologist who shepherd the rank and file, who are always left with having to deflect from the subject, bury the subject in rhetorical garbage, play the victim card or personally attack us but can never bring about solid evidence of any of their claims.

We are not gullible enough to believe in fairy tales from a failed Prophet.

We are 'foolish' enough to realize no man will ever become a god and that polytheism is the belief of pagans, something best left to ancient Rome and Greece.

So yes, you are right, in your skewed little world I am sure we are making fools of ourselves...

And we will continue to do so until the LDS drop any pretense of being Christian and stop using the name of our savior and slandering his name and mission.

[Elsie]

I often see a number of posts, often by Christians, that are critical of LDS members; Mitt Romney is one (although a poor example because I believe he a RINO).

No; they are CRITICAL of Mormonism.

Any 'criticism' of Romneyn is due to his POLITICS, even though his dedicated followers want to turn his rejection into a RELIGIOUS arguement.

They NEVER give up this tactic.

[Elsie]

Bingo. The reaction to Beck's rally shows we are a nation whose public schools -- and even Christian & private schools -- have a failing grade on teaching critical thinking.

CRITICAL???

BAH!

any 'thinking' at ALL!

We are all FEELING oriented now.

We might be failing in the world market place; but, by damn!; we sure have High Esteem!

[Elsie]

I believe the LDS Articles of Faith. That is what I believe, not what you think I believe or what you say I believe.

I 'believe' that you 'believe' MUCH more than you are letting on.

Do YOU have a Temple Recommend from your Bishop?

[Elsie]

I dare not post them here, however, because the last time I posted the LDS Articles of Faith, they were blasphemed, overwritten with trash, and used for toilet paper.

Poor Baby!!

Let me help you out!

---

 

 

 

 

---

Here is MORMONism's own creed:

---

 

 

Articles of Faith

The Articles of Faith outline 13 basic points of belief of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Prophet Joseph Smith first wrote them in a letter to John Wentworth, a newspaper editor,
in response to Mr. Wentworth's request to know what members of the Church believed.
They were subsequently published in Church periodicals.
They are now regarded as scripture and included in the Pearl of Great Price.

 

THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535—541

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

[Elsie]

The anti Mormons on this site are making fools of themselves but that is your prerogative; it’s still a free country.

Oh well....

---

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foolishness_for_Christ

[Elsie]

lol Whats so ridiculous?

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

[Tennessee Nana]

You will not convert people on this forum.
_____________________________________

WOW

Whose gonna win the Super Bowl ???

[Elsie]

Those are general macrobiotic health guidelines that have been observed in the orient for millenia.

Then WHY does MORMONism claim them to be a NEW revelation from GOD?