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Journalistic Malpractice - Time Magazine’s Bobby Ghosh and CNN’s Ali Velshi on ‘Cordovan Ecumenism’
Big Journalism ^ | Aug , | Andrew G. Bostom

Posted on 08/23/2010 5:19:18 AM PDT by Rashputin

Thursday during the 1 PM hour CNN’s “Newsroom,” this exchange took place between CNN reporter Ali Velshi and Time Magazine’s deputy international editor Bobby Ghosh:

VELSHI: The name Cordoba- some people are associating it with Muslim rule and bloody battles, when, in fact, Cordoba was one of the finest times in relations between the major religions.

GHOSH: Exactly right- in interfaith discourse-


GHOSH: And the great mosque of Cordoba that people are talking about and that Newt Gingrich was talking about- the man who built it, the Muslim prince who built it, bought it from a Christian group- paid money for it and bought it from a Christian group. And there was not a lot of alarm and anger raised then.

These statements are journalistic malpractice—ahistorical, whitewashed drivel—compounded by Ghosh’s ad hominem attack on Newt Gingrich.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: alandalus; cordoba; crdoba; islam; lies; media; spain
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To: livius

Sure, we’ll all be put to work building monuments to Islam. These people are idiots.

21 posted on 08/23/2010 6:01:29 AM PDT by popdonnelly (Democrats = authoritarian socialists)
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To: Rashputin

A very slender thread indeed. In fact, you can see how desperate the left is by their use of this argument. This is the first time I’ve seen it, but I bet you’ll see it more often.

Personally, however, I wouldn’t be surprised if they brought in a lot of foreign labor (from Muslim countries) to work on it.

22 posted on 08/23/2010 6:03:06 AM PDT by livius
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To: Rashputin

Interfaith discourse? What about the places in the World where members of other religions are killed by muslims? Hard to have discourse when you’re dead. Also, look at what happens to muslims who convert. That’s hardly a tolerant attitude towards other religions.

23 posted on 08/23/2010 6:03:44 AM PDT by popdonnelly (Democrats = authoritarian socialists)
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To: Rashputin
First, they try to paint this as a "Freedom of Religion" argument, and now try to paint over the truth of the significance of the Cordoba name.

I am so sick of the liberals stance on this issue that I am SCREAMING THIS OVERLOOKED POINT that no one who is fighting to prevent this mosque from being erected on this sight is saying. This is obviously the most simple counter to it being built at this location.

If you liberals are true proponents of the First Amendment:

You cannot claim to be supporting the mosque based on the Constitutional guarantee of Freedom of Religion - Religious Expression in America for the Islamic faith when you have denied Christians in America the right to display a cross on the highway, put up a Nativity Scene at Christmas, even say a prayer aloud that someone might hear and find "offensive."

You cannot tell us that those Christian displays or acts are offense to some few minorities and that we have to be sensitive to their feelings...and then, tell the MAJORITY of Americans that consideration of their feelings are not equally important when it comes to the Muslim desires to do what is offensive to millions.

You cannot expect that our feelings will not be offended every time there is a picture of that mosque, or we walk past it...or, more notably...EVERY DAY, every time the Islamic call to prayer blasts out at us from a tower and speaker on the building that stands in the shadow of the murder of thousands and the Islamic Jihadist attack on our country.

If you truly espouse Freedom of Religion, you liberals, then you will apply an equal bit of consideration of the feelings of the overwhelming American public.

The daily, continual offense to us that this building - at this location - will strike upon our hearts and memories requires the same sensitivity to our feelings that you have forced us to have in denying us our Constitutional right for freedom of religion/religious expression (even requiring us to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas in order to be "politically correct") because just a few non-Christians might, possibly, OCCASIONALLY, be offended.

24 posted on 08/23/2010 6:12:45 AM PDT by CitizenM ("Do you miss me yet?" Yes, George, we do.)
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To: Rashputin; livius

Hope you guys voted in the poll at the link, cuz the good guys are losing! Maybe you could start a thread so FReepers can bang that poll? I don’t start threads.

25 posted on 08/23/2010 6:29:53 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: livius
Exactly, the one caveat I'd offer is there were Muslim advancements in Mathematics and Medicine as well as Poetry but those were mostly centered around the Baghdad Caliphate in a specific era of time, such a love for learning is not the norm across the broad swath of Islam.

It amazes me how Liberals can just gloss over the Islamic conquest of Constantinople and other Christian and Jewish sites of importance, but scream bloody murder if anyone dare suggest such Triumphalism is still in effect to this day.

The destruction of important archaeological material at the site of the Temple Mount/Dome of the Rock is a really good example of how Islam rolls even today.

26 posted on 08/23/2010 6:34:11 AM PDT by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: Rashputin

List of martyrs Cordoba:
July 11, 854. A parish priest in Ananelos, a village near Córdoba. He was arrested for having maligned Mohammad. Unlike most of the other martyrs, Abundius was betrayed by others and did not volunteer to face the Emir’s court. He was beheaded and his body was thrown to the dogs. His feast day is celebrated on July 11.

Adolphus and John
Further information: St. Adolphus
September 27 ca. 822. Two brothers born in Seville, Al-Andalus, of a Muslim father and a Christian mother. They were executed in Córdoba under Abd ar-Rahman II.

Amator, Peter and Louis
April 30, 855. Amator was born in Martos, near Córdoba, where he was an ordained priest. Together with a monk named Peter and a layman called Louis (Ludovicus), the brother of the previous martyr Paul, he was executed by the Emirate for blaspheming Islam.

Anastasius, Felix and Digna
June 14, 853. Anastasius was a deacon of the church of St. Acisclus in Córdoba, who became a monk at nearby Tábanos. Felix was born in Alcalá of a Berber family, became a monk in Asturias but joined the monastery at Tábanos, hoping for martyrdom. Digna belonged to the convent there.

(also known as Argimirus, Argimir) June 28, 856. Argimir, a nobleman from Cabra, was Emir Muhammad I’s censor. He was deprived of his office on account of his faith and became a monk. He was accused by others of having insulted the prophet Muhammad and publicly proclaimed the divinity of Jesus. Argimir was offered mercy if he renounced Christianity and professed Islam; he refused, and was executed.

(also known as Aura) July 9, 856. Born in Córdoba in Al-Andalus and a daughter of Muslim parents, in her widowhood she quietly became a Christian and a nun at Cuteclara, where she remained for more than twenty years. She was discovered by Muslim relatives, brought before a judge, and renounced her Christianity under duress. However, she regretted this, and continued to practice Christianity in secret. When her family discovered this, she was again brought before a court, refused to repent a second time, and was executed.

June 15, 853. Anastasius’ execution inspired this woman of Cordoba to choose martyrdom herself the next day. Her ashes were thrown into the Guadalquivir.

September 17, 853. Born in Córdoba and a nun at Tábanos, she was detained with the rest of the nuns, to prevent them from giving themselves up to the courts, when the Emirate closed the monastery in 852. She escaped, openly denounced Muhammad and was beheaded.

Elias, Paul and Isidore
April 17, 856. Elias, a priest in Córdoba, was executed in his old age by the Moors, together with the young monks Paul and Isidore, two of his students.

Emilas and Jeremiah
September 15, 852. Two young men, the former of whom was a deacon, imprisoned and beheaded in Cordoba under the Emir Abderrahman.

Eulogius of Cordoba
Further information: Eulogius of Cordoba
March 11, 859. A prominent priest in Córdoba Al-Andalus during this period. Outstanding for his courage and learning, he encouraged some of the voluntary martyrs and wrote The Memorial of the Saints for their benefit. He himself was executed for hiding and protecting a young girl St. Leocritia that had converted from Islam.

June 13, 853. A priest and Abbot of Peñamelaria near Córdoba. He was beheaded in Córdoba by order of Muhammad I.

Flora and Maria
November 24, 851. These two women were both the offspring of marriages between a Christian and a Muslim. In addition, Maria was the sister of Walabonsus, who had been executed earlier. Flora’s father, who died when she was very young, was a Muslim, and so her Christianity was legally defined as apostasy. Although Maria and Flora denounced Islam in court together, Maria was executed for blasphemy and Flora for apostasy.

George, Aurelius and Natalia, Felix and Liliosa
Further information: Aurelius and Natalia
July 27 c. 852. Martyrs in Córdoba under Emir Abd ar-Rahman II. Aurelius and Felix, with their wives, Natalia and Liliosa, were Iberians whose family backgrounds, although religiously mixed, legally required them to profess Islam. After given four days to recant, they were condemned as apostates for revealing their previously secret Christian faith. The deacon George was a monk from Palestine who was arrested along with the two couples. Though offered a pardon as a foreigner, he chose to denounce Islam again and die with the others.

Gumesindus and Servusdei
January 13, 852. Gusemindus, a parish-priest, and Servusdei, a monk, were executed in Cordoba under Abd ar-Rahman II.

June 3, 851. Born to a wealthy Córdoban family, he was well educated and fluent in Arabic which helped him rise quickly to the position of exceptor rei publicae in the Moorish government. He resigned in order to become a monk at his family’s monastery of Tabanos, a few miles from Córdoba. During a public debate in Cordoba he denounced Mohammed and was executed for it.

Further information: Saint Laura
October 19, 864. Born in Córdoba, as a widow she became a nun at Cuteclara. Condemned as an apostate, she was thrown into a cauldron of molten lead.

(also known as Lucretia) March 15, 859. A young girl in Córdoba. Her parents were Muslims, but she was converted to Christianity by a relative. On Eulogius’ advice and with his aid, Leocritia escaped her home and went into hiding. Once found, both were arrested. Eulogius, after years of being in and out of prison and encouraging voluntary martyrdom, was executed for proselytization, and Leocritia for apostasy.

Leovigild and Christopher
August 20, 852. Leovigild was a monk and pastor in Córdoba and Christopher a monk of the monastery of St Martin de La Rojana near Córdoba. They were executed in Córdoba under Abd ar-Rahman II.

Nunilo and Alodia
Further information: Nunilo and Alodia
October 22, 851. Two sisters born in Adahuesca in Huesca in Al-Andalus. Daughters of a Muslim father and Christian mother, they were raised as Christians. After the death of their father, their mother married another Muslim, who brutally persecuted them and had them imprisoned. They were finally beheaded in Huesca during the reign of Abd ar-Rahman II.

Paul of St Zoilus
July 20, 851. A deacon in Córdoba who belonged to the monastery of St Zoilus and who was very zealous in ministering to Christians imprisoned by the Muslims. He was beheaded; his relics are enshrined in the church of St Zoilus.

Peter, Walabonsus, Sabinian, Wistremundus, Habentius and Jeremiah
June 7, 851. Peter was a priest; Walabonsus, a deacon; Sabinian and Wistremundus, monks of St Zoilus in Córdoba in Al-Andalus; Habentius, a monk of St Christopher’s; Jeremiah, a very old man, had founded the monastery of Tábanos, near Córdoba. For publicly denouncing Muhammad they were executed under Abderrahman in Córdoba. Jeremiah was scourged to death; the others were beheaded.

Further information: Perfectus
April 18, 850. A priest in Córdoba in Al-Andalus, beheaded for testimony against Islam and Muhammad.

September 19, 835. A nun at Peñamelaria near Córdoba. She was beheaded by the Emir of Córdoba.

September 19, 853. Another nun, from the monastery of San Salvador at Peñamelaria. She escaped the imprisonment of the nuns, went before the court and was executed, despite protests from her fellow nuns.

Rudericus (Roderick) and Salomon (Solomon)
March 13, 857. Roderick was a priest in Cabra who was betrayed by his Muslim brother, who falsely accused him of converting to Islam and then returning to Christianity (i.e. apostasy). In prison he met his fellow-martyr, Salomon. They were both executed in Córdoba.

Rogellus and Servus-Dei
September 16, 852. A monk and his young disciple executed in Córdoba for publicly denouncing Islam inside a mosque. They were the first Christian martyrs executed under Muhammad I.

(also known as Sanctius, Sancius) June 5, 851. Born in Albi in Septimania(modern day France), he was taken to Córdoba in Al-Andalus as a prisoner of war, educated at the royal court, and enrolled in the guards of the Emir. He was executed by impalement for his refusal to embrace Islam, the very model of a soldier saint.

(also known as Sandalus, Sandolus, Sandulf) September 3 c. 855. Executed in Córdoba under the Emirate.

July 16, 851. Born in Badajoz in Estremadura, he became a deacon in the church of St Acisclus in Córdoba. He was beheaded under Abd ar-Rahman II.

July 25, 851. A monk executed in Córdoba in Al-Andalus under Abd ar-Rahman II.

(also known as Witesind) 855. A Christian layman from Cabra, who had converted to Islam but later recanted; he was executed for apostasy.

27 posted on 08/23/2010 6:38:04 AM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
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To: Marty62; All

Great post in a thread of great posts. BTTT!

28 posted on 08/23/2010 6:53:34 AM PDT by PGalt
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To: Rashputin
Someone said "Interfaith"??

All these churches doing the interfaith dance with the creep, or claiming he is a "Christian", may as well be of this denomination:



The Church of Hitler was an actual serious effort mounted by people in the National Alliance in 2005. Crashed at once. Maybe they just lacked an Obama.

29 posted on 08/23/2010 7:04:12 AM PDT by Hardraade (I want gigaton warheads now!!)
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To: padre35

The medical achievements were mostly from the subject Jews, whose names are still on the treatises, but as usual the Muslims take credit for it.

Furthermore, that part of Spain was basically the heir to what remained of Roman learning; over the years, up to his death in 630 (well prior to the Muslim invasions and in fact, prior to Islam’s rise), St Isidore of Sevilla worked on a massive written work covering “all human knowledge” which drew upon what remained of Classical sources and was the sole source of these in the West for many years. He studied the trivium and quadrivium at the Cathedral school as a child.

Also, the Islamic system was still new and not fully consolidated. The Baghdadis were not Arabs but had had a very advanced civilization (particularly in the area of math and science) before its fall to Islam. During the first years of the Baghdadi caliphate, figurative art was even allowed. However, even the Baghdadis could never have been said to have encouraged learning, but simply to have permitted it to the extent useful. Still, as Islam became more systematized, other Muslims began to regard the Baghdadis as heretical, and in fact they fell to invasions by North African Muslims.

Islam has NOTHING to boast about - it’s very good at claiming other peoples’ achievements, however,

30 posted on 08/23/2010 7:15:01 AM PDT by livius
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To: kittymyrib; All

31 posted on 08/23/2010 7:24:55 AM PDT by maine-iac7 (g)
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To: Rashputin
There can be wonderful interfaith relations, as long as all acknowledge that Islam is ascendent and willingly submit.

By calling this Mosque Worship Center Interfaith Center Community Center YMCA "Cordoba House", Rauf is offering the sophisticates of New York the same deal that was offered to the people of Cordoba. They can become willing subjects of the ascendant Islamic Empire, and in return they will recieve a favored position amongst the Dhimmi, which can be quite profitable.

The sad thing is that so many New Yorkers appear to be considering the offer favorably...

32 posted on 08/23/2010 7:57:30 AM PDT by Haiku Guy (You can force me to recycle, but I will NOT sing the song!)
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To: Rashputin
First, create a problem;
Second, generate opposition to the problem;
Third, present a solution to the problem which otherwise would have been impossible without the psychological conditioning achieved in the first and second stages.

Keep your eyes open. Eventually a solution to this "problem" will be suggested. I don't think the opposition has reached the fever pitch needed to present the already-determined solution. I wonder what the elites will propose and who will be the messenger.

33 posted on 08/23/2010 8:14:28 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Marty62

Thank you for that list.

34 posted on 08/23/2010 8:14:44 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama is already insane and sequestered on golf courses or vacations so you won't know it)
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To: Oratam
"Eventually a solution to this "problem" will be suggested."

You bet it will, and it'll be free land for the mosque, a direct display of favoritism for a particular religion, but it'll be done in the name of public safety rather than being called the direct violation of the Constitution that it'll be.

This is the first step, IMHO, in the government claiming that it has to have a role in making mosques more available to the "co mum itty" and beginning to justify it having a direct sponsorship relationship with the muslim faith. That is, the first step in a complete and total refutation of the establishment clause (not some made up stretch of the imagination to rule against Christians and Jews based on that clause).

Anyone who doesn't think it can happen better watch very carefully, it's in progress. The muslim wealth that was poured into Barry before he was even a Senator and since he began his run for president wasn't spent without strings attached and a clear cut plan that works hand in glove with the goals of socialism. Remember, too, that Barry openly claims that the Constitution is not worthy of his paying any attention to it since it is a "flawed document". Regards

35 posted on 08/23/2010 8:32:45 AM PDT by Rashputin (Obama is already insane and sequestered on golf courses or vacations so you won't know it)
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To: livius

Check out what’s in my neighborhood!

36 posted on 08/23/2010 8:49:53 AM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Rashputin


37 posted on 08/23/2010 10:00:05 AM PDT by Marty62 (marty60)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Horrible! I lived in Hiram (near Kent) for a couple of years.

These mosques, ranging from tiny buildings bought from rural black churches to big mysterious new constructions in the middle of nowhere, are all throughout the South too.

I live in North Florida and there used to be practically no Muslim population here, other than a few foreign born doctors who worked in abortion “clinics” or were practicing here because they were paying off a US loan. However, the really creepy thing is how many plump little country girls I have recently seen trotting around my town wearing a hijab. They are probably trailer folk married to prison Muslims, but it’s not a good sign.

38 posted on 08/23/2010 10:21:41 AM PDT by livius
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To: Hardraade

Mohammed’s “religion” was essentially a racial supremacy cult (Arab being the ethnic group in question) that he built up with successive “dreams” over the years because he found that it made it easier to dominate the people he had conquered. One of the reasons it’s a syncretist cult - as Hitler’s would have been - is that it was intended to placate all of the different groups.

Like Mormonism, another domination-oriented cult that was only knocked back by the power of the US Army, it’s heavily based on the Old Testament and also includes the names of people who figure in the Christian scriptures. The only difference is that while Mormons added a spiritualist element (divination and dreams), Mohammed added the pagan element of the meteor (the Kaaba) and various moon goddess references.

And of course, Mohammed didn’t have to face the US Army. Rome was dead by the time Mohammed came along or he would never have gotten a start.

You’re right. Islam is no different from the religion Hitler would have started had he lived long enough.

39 posted on 08/23/2010 10:30:38 AM PDT by livius
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To: Rashputin
The muslim wealth that was poured into Barry before he was even a Senator and since he began his run for president wasn't spent without strings attached and a clear cut plan that works hand in glove with the goals of socialism.

For some reason I was consideing this today. How long do you think they have been planning this?

I suspect that even the left was a little blindsided but they are rising to the challenge and have become the apologists supreme for radical Islam.

Rauf is a Sufi, always considered the "safe" form of Islam for Western intellectuals (Prince Charles is a sufi) and one that was harmless because in 100% Muslim countries, Sufis are regarded as heretics. But Sufis are all involved with the marabitun movement, the same one that recruited the Oxford intellectuals, the leaders of the Basque separatist movement ETA, and a host of others in English speaking countries and Latin America.

Sufism is clearly the Trojan horse.

40 posted on 08/23/2010 10:37:50 AM PDT by livius
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