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Physics: Proton radius smaller than believed, European scientists say
LA Times ^ | July 7, 2010 | Thomas H. Maugh II

Posted on 07/07/2010 9:06:34 PM PDT by smokingfrog

Sophisticated measurements from experiments indicate the radius is 4% smaller than thought. If true, the finding could have major ramifications for the standard model used in modern physics.

Physicists might have to rethink what they know about, well, everything.

European researchers dropped a potential bombshell on their colleagues around the world Wednesday by reporting that sophisticated new measurements indicate the radius of the proton is 4% smaller than previously believed.

In a world where measurements out to a dozen or more decimal places are routine, a 4% difference in this subatomic particle — found in every atom's nucleus — is phenomenally large, and the finding has left theoreticians scratching their heads in wonderment and confusion.

If the startling results are confirmed, a possibility that at least some physicists think is unlikely because the calculations involved are so difficult, they could have major ramifications for the so-called standard model on which most modern physics is based.

In an editorial accompanying the report in the journal Nature, physicist Jeff Flowers of the National Physical Laboratory in Teddington, England, said there were three possibilities: Either the experimenters have made a mistake, the calculations used in determining the size of the proton are wrong or, potentially most exciting and disturbing, the standard model has some kind of problem.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: physics; proton; protonradius; protons; science; standardmodel; stringtheory
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1 posted on 07/07/2010 9:06:38 PM PDT by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog

However, a proton is still larger than Obummer’s brain.


2 posted on 07/07/2010 9:07:49 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: smokingfrog

Why do they assume that a proton is spherical?


3 posted on 07/07/2010 9:08:13 PM PDT by Hoodat (.For the weapons of our warfare are mighty in God for pulling down strongholds.)
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To: smokingfrog

What difference does it make, with the budget being over 3 trillion, they won’t get any funding anyway.


4 posted on 07/07/2010 9:10:55 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: Beowulf9

...er, make that “What difference does it make, with the deficit being over 3 trillion, they won’t get any funding anyway”


5 posted on 07/07/2010 9:11:57 PM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: smokingfrog

The proton finding won’t impact most people’s daily lives. But if it proves correct, it means something fundamental is wrong in particle physics.

It’s possible the smaller proton means the Rydberg constant hasn’t been correctly measured. This value describes the way light gets emitted from various elements—a key component of spectroscopy, which is used, for instance, to tell which kinds of elements exist in galaxies and the vast interstellar gas-and-dust clouds called nebulae.

Or, if the Rydberg constant is correct, the smaller size of a proton could mean the equations in QED theory will fail to work.


6 posted on 07/07/2010 9:12:38 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( - Eccl. 10:18 -)
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To: smokingfrog

Like, duh, anyone could have seen that by just looking at a proton.


7 posted on 07/07/2010 9:12:51 PM PDT by bgill (how could a young man born here in Kenya, who is not even a native American, become the POTUS)
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To: smokingfrog

Who cares what the true radius is? Why don’t they just go with a consensus of leading physicists?


8 posted on 07/07/2010 9:13:04 PM PDT by fhayek
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To: Hoodat

Because they’re physicists. Don’t you know the joke about a physicist designing a dog house? “Well, first we assumed the dog was a sphere...”

(By the way, even ellipses and prolate and oblate spheroids have radii.)


9 posted on 07/07/2010 9:14:11 PM PDT by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: SunkenCiv

physics ping


10 posted on 07/07/2010 9:15:13 PM PDT by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: smokingfrog

Weird. What’s taken for a standard, or well-known established value, is at times in history .. found to be not so, because it is some measurement or value of a parameter rarely used in practice.


11 posted on 07/07/2010 9:16:15 PM PDT by bvw
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To: smokingfrog; Salamander; Markos33; Slings and Arrows; Quix; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Fichori; ...
Shhhhhhh!

Just wait 'till they figure out it isn't really there at all!


12 posted on 07/07/2010 9:19:24 PM PDT by shibumi ( "Tsuru no Sugomori")
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To: Hoodat
Surprise to physicists – protons aren't always shaped like a basketball

The shape of a proton depends on the speed of the quarks inside. The spherical shape is the shape most physicists expected to find. The peanut shape is produced by quarks traveling nearly at light speed and spinning the same direction as the proton.

13 posted on 07/07/2010 9:19:52 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( - Eccl. 10:18 -)
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To: smokingfrog; writer33; KevinDavis

omi-gawd!!!

This can’t happen!

This is horrible news! Just tragic!!

*sob*!

no not really. ha!


14 posted on 07/07/2010 9:20:39 PM PDT by GeronL (Just say NO to conservativecave.com, it rots your teeth!)
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To: Hoodat

Better yet: why do they assume that the proton, as particle, has fixed physical dimensions? As a wave, its dimensions are zilch; as a particle, I’d expect them to fluctuate. Perhaps this 4% deficit is actually the “lower bound” measurement.


15 posted on 07/07/2010 9:22:38 PM PDT by Moose Burger
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To: bgill

My protons are actually 4% BIGGER, that’s why
girls like me.


16 posted on 07/07/2010 9:23:08 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: smokingfrog

Actually, protons are shaped like soccer balls.


17 posted on 07/07/2010 9:23:26 PM PDT by dr_who
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To: smokingfrog
This is all fine and dandy, but Schrödinger’s cat is still dead — at least the last time I looked, I mean.
18 posted on 07/07/2010 9:23:52 PM PDT by 50cal Smokepole (Effective gun control involves effective recoil management)
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To: smokingfrog

...and —most importantly— those aren’t quarks inside the protons and neutrons. They’re frosted lucky charms.


19 posted on 07/07/2010 9:24:53 PM PDT by dr_who
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To: smokingfrog

“Physicists might have to rethink what they know about, well, everything. “

Not a problem. According to the reports and articles I read, they do that about once a month.


20 posted on 07/07/2010 9:25:43 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The Last Boy Scout)
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