Romney gearing up for 2012 presidential run?

I hear Version 3 is going back to being liberal on social issues and focusing on fiscal conservatism.

I read the same thing. Problem for him is, Mr. Mitt--pro-TARP, pro-bailouts, pro-government-controlled healthcare, "I love mandates"--Romney is no more convincing in his "fiscal conservative" costume than he was in the "social conservative" one.

Really can’t pass judgment on it. Just passing on the info — thanks to Jim.

“But to say that because he flip flopped on abortion doesn’t make sense. He flipped to the pro-life side. Why does that disqualify him?”

I will tell you why. Because after Romney “flipped” to prolife, he stabbed the prolife community in the back by signing RomneyCare which provides abortions as part of every health plan for a $50 copay adn REQUIRES EVERY CITIZEN TO SUBSIDIZE THEM. Does that answer your question???!! He is a fraud. Period. Paragraph.

I’d be interested in knowing why you classify him as a”RINO.”

To repeat: I’d be interested in knowing why YOU classify him as a”RINO."

He couldn’t upset McCain and he regards this as political strength? He probably won’t last long.

Romney lost because Huckabee spoiled him, not because of anything McCain did to beat him. Every vote Governor Mike got, he took away from Romney.

See post 105.

"Pawlenty is a big cap and tax supporter who is about as dull as dishwater."

The cap and tax stuff I'm not even worrying about anymore. Manmade climate change has now been so discredited that any Republican thinking about cap and tax will not touch it with a 10 foot pole. It's just not going to happen on the Republican side. Doubtful on the Democrat side. As for dull as dishwater, well he's got time to work on that.

He’s far left on social issues and a fascist on economic issues(Romneycare). What’s left?

Romney is on the record as being pro-life and "would welcome Roe Vs. Wade" being overturned. He is not the Conservative politician to see the light on this issue.

Healthcare, BTW, is also a "social issue," but if you're going to sound like you know what you're talking about opposing what happened in Massachusetts you might want to avoid calling in "Romneycare." Given the equivalent of a line item, he had six vetos overriden on the bill that was eventually passed.

Romney care.

There is no such animal. Do you know the facts on how healthcare was enacted in Mass?

2005 - after saying he was pro-life, Romney answered ‘’yes” to the question, ‘Do you support the substance of the Supreme Court decision in Roe v. Wade?’

Two-step process: overturn Roe; then change hearts & minds. (Sep 2007)

Would be delighted to sign federal ban on all abortions. (Nov 2007)

Was pro-choice, now proudly pro-life. (Dec 2007)

Following in Reagan’s footsteps in converting to pro-life. (Aug 2007)

Q: Why such a dramatic and profound change after pledging never to waiver on a woman’s right to choose? A: I was always personally opposed to abortion, as I think almost everyone in this nation is. And the question for me was, what is the role of government? And it was quite theoretical and philosophical to consider what the role of government should be in this regard, and I felt that the Supreme Court had spoken and that government shouldn’t be involved and let people make their own decision. That all made a lot of sense to me. Then I became governor and the theoretical became reality. A bill came to my desk which related to the preservation of life. I recognized that I simply could not be part of an effort that would cause the destruction of human lift. And I didn’t hide from that change of heart. I recognize it’s a change. Every piece of legislation which came to my desk in the coming years as the governor, I came down on the side of preserving the sanctity of life.

Source: Meet the Press: 2007 “Meet the Candidates” series Dec 16, 2007

For gun control.

Wrong. Romney has been for a ban on so-called "assault weapons." I disagree with him here too, but assault weapons bans are not the same thing as gun control.

For minimum wage increases.

Totally untrue. This misconception is based on a quote he gave to the Boston Globe in 1994. Here's a more recent one that should clear up any confusion you might have:

"[T]he challenge with raising the minimum wage excessively is it is a hurt to those that are entering the work force, the very poor, those that are trying to get early jobs, get those first jobs."

Associated Press, 7/25/06

Imposes Obamacare on Mass.

I have addressed this subject four or five times in this thread. Read my posts to others on this thread, and let me know if that doesn't clear it up for you.

Raised “fees” $500 million so he could say he did not raise taxes.

The correct figure is $240 million. The state was in a budget shortfall, and it needed to raise money. The fees were on services like gun, driver's and marriage licences, registry of deeds, and highway billboard advertising. In otherwords, things that are already subsidized in part by taxes. John McCain tried to make this stupid argument. If your point is that it would be preferrable to raise income taxes, I have to question what type of conservative you are.

Destroyed the party in Mass.

What party in Mass? I lived there for four years.

Need I post more?

I suppose you might make a valid point eventually. Remember, I'm not a Romney fan, I just question the knee-jerk reaction to the guy on this website.

Do you know the facts on how healthcare was enacted in Mass?

Begin Team Romney Talking Points:

It was the Heritage Foundation's plan, right? (Mitt paid them to put their signature on it)

It was the MA legislature that did all kinds of 'bad' things to Mitt's good bill? No, again. Mitt has praised the bill in it's current form, graded it an "A" and called it his greatest achievement.

Is it Heritage's plan or is it the MASS Dem's plan who took something 'good' and made it 'bad'. Actually, it doesn't matter because Mitt loves it, in its current form!

June 30, 2009 Romney Portrait to be Unveiled at State House

The portrait depicts the governor seated at the front edge of his desk wearing his trademark business suit. Beside him is a small framed photo of his wife, Ann, and ... [wait for it] ... a copy of the health care reform law he called his greatest achievement. [note to mittbots; since this was June, 2009, this means he claims credit and praises the disaster of a healthcare plan the MASS Dems produced]

Romney disqualified himself for the republican nomination by allowing or urging the daily slander of Sarah Palin from August 29, 2008 to the present by his campaign workers that went to work for the McCain campaign or to work for CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC, CBS. He lost me in the May 2007 MSNBC debate when he told chris matthews that it was wrong for Bush/congress to intervene to rescue Terri Schiavo. And that he was proud that he denied a pardon of a Mass. soldier, recently back from a tour in Iraq, that wanted to clear his record of an offense committed as a 13 year-old(shooting a BB gun accidentally hitting a friend in the face) so he could be eligible to apply for a job as a policeman. But Romney, whose 5 sons never served in the military, even after Sept. 11, 2001, even though they were all still age eligible, denied this soldier a pardon. Also said he was against Reagan tax policies in the ‘80’s and ‘90’s but then claimed to be supportive during 2008 campaign. There are actually sychophants out there claiming Romney is an “up from his bootstraps guy that built a business from scratch”. He’s a soft-handed silver-spoon that was given 36 millon dollars by his Dad when he graduated business school. He’s pro-abortion. His wife is a stridently pro-abortion. His mother was the same way. He’s donated money to planned parenthood and other abortion mills. He then during the 2008 campaign claimed he was pro-life. Romney is intrinsically dishonest. If you want to understand how he made money, study a man named Al Dunlap. There's much more.

Here's a more recent one that should clear up any confusion you might have

Actually, that is the confusing part. If you go back far enough, you can find him on just about every side of every issue. In some cases, with opposing positions in the same year.

There is no RomneyCARE? What planet are you from?

PROOF RomneyCARE AND ObamaCARE are Disasters
(and Romney is utterly clueless)

“Mr. Romney's subsidized coverage is meanwhile doing what entitlements do: crowding
out private insurers, compounding the cost explosion, walking the state toward rationing.
So long as the former governor clings to these central points of his health plan, he's on
the wrong side of free-market policy and public opinion.

This isn't going away for Mr. Romney either, which is why he'd do better by writing off
his own plan as a mistake that Democrats have made worse, and replacing it with a
proposal that deregulates and reforms the private market to lower insurance costs
(thereby achieving greater coverage).”

“Health Care Speechwriter for Edwards, Obama & Clinton Now Without Health Insurance”
I'm a critic because what Washington is talking about doing
has made health insurance unaffordable in Massachusetts.

“Small businesses bridle at health insurance hikes (Romneycare strangles Mass. businesses)
some really bad news from Blue Cross-Blue Shield: His company’s health insurance rates are going up 47 percent in January.”

“ Rationing medicine has already begun
… government-
run health care has introduced rationing and waiting lists and cost the lives of the people under its provisions.”

“DEATH PANELS OPEN FOR BUSINESS IN MASSACHUSETTS”

“President Obama's newly confirmed regulatory czar defended the
possibility of removing organs from terminally ill patients without their permission.”

“You can’t reap these savings without limiting patients’ choices in some way," said Paul Levy, CEO of Beth Israel Deaconess.”

“State plan may place limits on patients’ hospital options( Mass. RomneyCare )”

"Romney Visits Nebraska, Talks Health Care [where he defends Romneycare] “

"Paying the Health Tax in Massachusetts [Romneycare]
Massachusetts requires every resident to have health insurance, and this
year, without informing us directly, the state had changed the rules in a way that made
our bare-bones policy no longer acceptable. Unless we ponied up for a pricier policy we
neither need nor want—or enrolled in a government-sponsored insurance plan—we
would have to pay $1,000 each year to the state.
How did we become outlaws? “

"National Health Preview - The Massachusetts debacle, coming soon to your neighborhood."
It was only a matter of time.
They're trying to manage the huge costs of the subsidized middle-class insurance program that is gradually swallowing the state budget.
The program provides low- or no-cost coverage to about 165,000 residents, or three-fifths of the newly insured, and is budgeted at $880 million for 2010, a 7.3% single-year increase that is likely to be optimistic.
The state's overall costs on health programs have increased by 42% (!) since 2006."

A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State’s ‘Grand Experiment’ Fails [RomneyCare]
"Initiated on Mr. Romney’s gubernatorial watch in 2006, this “experiment” has fallen on hard times, and predictably so. “

Health care in Massachusetts: a warning for America [Romney brings Mass. to its knees]
The Bay State's mandatory insurance law is raising costs, limiting access, and lowering care.
Three years ago, Massachusetts adopted a plan requiring all residents to purchase health
insurance, with state subsidies for lower-income residents. But rather than creating a
utopia of high-quality affordable healthcare, the result has been the exact opposite –
skyrocketing costs, worsened access, and lower quality care."

"‘Severe’ doc shortage seen hiking wait time
“The shortage is getting more severe”"

“Health costs to rise again.( RomneyCare )
The state’s major health insurers plan to raise premiums by about 10 percent next year,
prompting many employers to reduce benefits and shift additional costs to workers.”

“Nation’s ill-advised to follow Mass. plan [Health plan a failure]
September 17, 2009 The canary is dead.
Massachusetts, the model for the ObamaCare universal insurance plan, is the canary in
the health care coal mine. Yesterday, its obit appeared on the front page of both The Wall
Street Journal and The Boston Globe-Democrat “

"Bay State Insurance Premiums Highest in Country - Boston Globe August 22, 2009
Massachusetts has the most expensive family health insurance premiums in the country,
according to a new analysis that highlights the state’s challenge in trying to rein in medical costs
40 percent higher than in 2003. Over the same period, premiums nationwide rose an average of 33 percent..."

"Massachusetts: the laboratory for ObamaCare“

"Massachusetts' Obama-like reforms increase health costs, wait times [RomneyCare]
Premiums are growing 21 to 46 percent faster than the national average"

"Mass. Pushes Rationing to Control Universal Healthcare Costs (RomneyCare)
A 10-member Massachusetts state healthcare advisory board unanimously recommended
that the state begin rationing healthcare to keep the state’s marquee universal health care program afloat financially.”

"1,000 cancer patients 'refused treatment'"

"Massachusetts Universal Healthcare System Breaking Down Already
ERs in Massachusetts have not seen a downturn in visits. On the contrary, it seems that ER visits are actually on the upswing in the Bay State. In fact, in 2007 they were higher than the national average by 20 percent...”

"Hospital patients 'left in agony'"

"National Health Preview - The Massachusetts debacle, coming soon to your neighborhood.
In Massachusetts's latest crisis,
They're trying to manage the huge costs of the subsidized middle-class insurance program that is gradually swallowing the state budget.
The program provides low- or no-cost coverage to about 165,000 residents, or three-fifths of the newly insured, and is budgeted at $880 million for 2010, a 7.3% single-year increase that is likely to be optimistic.
The state's overall costs on health programs have increased by 42% (!) since 2006
Mr. Romney should have known better before signing on to this not-so-grand experiment, especially since the state's "free market" reforms that he boasts about have proven to be irrelevant when not fictional.
Only 21,000 people have used the "connector" that was supposed to link individuals to private insurers."

A Very Sick Health Plan; Bay State’s ‘Grand Experiment’ Fails [RomneyCare]
… fiscal troubles aplenty within Repubican Mitt Romney’s brainchild, Massachusetts’ “grand experiment” in “universal” health care."
"Initiated on Mr. Romney’s gubernatorial watch in 2006, this “experiment” has fallen on hard times, and predictably so.
Even though the Bay State commenced its program with a far smaller percentage of uninsured residents than exists nationwide,
“RomneyCare” is threatening to bankrupt the state.“

"Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry"

"Romney’s mistreatments a sick man, as Gov. Mitt Romney meets a medical marijuana patient"

Well, I'm beginning to see a pattern take form.

So, joe predicts: (no Nostradamus, here, just some SWAG).

The Republicans will do everything in their power to co-opt, hijack, or eventually (we aren't there yet) dicard/marginallize the TEA party movement.

A few who actually get it will walk with folks who have been Taxed Enough Already, and will walk that walk well while maintaining party ties in their districts and get into office.

Others, who seek to 'game' the TEA party gatherings for personal and political gain will not be as successful, and may end up alienating the very votes they court.

The warning works both ways. Conservatives who return like a dog to its vomit and fail to fight as hard as they can for a Conservative candidate will risk being thrown under the bus again, just like countless other times when we ended up having to choose between the slow train to hell or the fast one or sitting it out which helped the more liberal candidate get elected anyway.

Such is the vicious calculus of electoral reality.

The primaries are coming. Conservatives must fight for all they are worth to not end up in the same bilge we have been relegated to by the RINOs in election after election.

As for alleged 'conservatives' from Uberliberalland, you may meet the criteria for being far right where you ran for office last, but out here in flyover country, you are still in the left-hand lane.

There is a good chance you view us as 'extremists', because you still fail to comprehend that on some issues there is no compromise for us, no number of babies slaughtered in the womb we consider 'OK', no amount of extraConstitutional activity by the Federal Government we consider right, and no compromising our most sacred beliefs for your version of what is politically correct.

Mr. Romney, with all due respect, and while I give you credit for introducing a small taste of conservativism to a commonwealth so liberal as to be beyond the ken of many of us in flyover country, we do not consider you a conservative. Not even close. We cannot support you for a National office because most of your views are so liberal they are alien to us.

Please save your money and our time.

ARE YOU OUT TO LUNCH? It was Mitt who gave Massachusetts RomneyCare.

MEGA EPIC RINO FAIL.

To repeat: I’d be interested in knowing why YOU classify him as a”RINO."

Why would you repeat it when that point was made that clear with the link I posted?

He's pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro-socailist medicine and has, in the past, tried to be more liberal than Ted Kennedy. That is NOT what the Republican Party should be about. It's not the party of Reagan.

Romney should run as a democrat; he's much more aligned with their political views as are other RINOs.

Romney is on the record as being pro-life

He’s also on the record as being pro-baby killing. Who cares what a politician says, it their actions that count.

PROOF RomneyCARE AND ObamaCARE are Disasters (and Romney is utterly clueless)

PROOF RomneyCARE AND ObamaCARE are Disasters
(and Romney is utterly clueless)