Posted on 02/06/2010 10:14:41 AM PST by Syncro
February 6, 2010 12:10 PM
*snip*
"Prove your case."
"I should prove, what, a birth certificate that may or may not exist?" Farah had gotten irritated. "That’s ridiculous. You don’t even understand the fundamental tenets of what journalism is about, Andrew. It’s not about proving things. It’s about asking questions and seeking truth."
Breitbart tensed up after that insult. "Right."
"I know you’re not a journalist, so that’s fine. But don’t diminish people who’ve been doing this for 35 years."
"So you’re going to go on record saying that I’m not a journalist?"
"Are you? I’ve never heard you claim to be. Are you?"
"I’ll let it be answered by you."
"Well, I knew [Matt]Drudge didn’t consider himself a journalist, so I assumed that you were. … I don’t know, I’m not trying to insult you."
"You did."
(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...
Your post is one of the best I’ve seen on the subject.
10-4 on that. I have to side with Rush on this, if there was any hay to be made from the birth certificate issue the Clintons would have let the rest of us know what it was.
Let's say someone finds Obama's Kenyan birth certificate tomorrow at 11:35am. Does he disappear at 11:36? Like a mirage?
I told you to slow down because you are doing almost everything you can to tell me what I'm saying, without listening to what I'm saying. And the portion of your response I've selected above? That's just silly. Listen to yourself.
The legal proceedings (in Congress and elsewhere) would be epic . . . something you don't give any indication that you've even considered. And before you rush to put words in my mouth (again), I'm not saying that the epic nature of any subsequent legal proceedings is a reason they should be avoided, just that they would mark the beginning of the process and not the end, as you appear to believe.
Let's review:
birth certificate discovered - - - - > impeachment proceedings (possibly) beginnot,
impeachment trial ends - - - - > Obama is removed
birth certificate discovered - - - - > Hey honey, did you hear Obama melted like a snowman? What's for dinner?
If people want to spend their time investigating Obama’s citizenship, it’s fine by me. It would be a suiting payback for his winning office by making others ineligible. But we should remember that the purpose of a political group is to win political battles and the purpose of a Tea Party Convention is to share organizing skills and to put forward a picture of the values we share to the public so that we can increase our numbers.
Believing that Obama is not entitled to be President is not a value. A political group can’t determine the outcome of the argument fairly. Maybe the National Enquirer or WND or some other bunch will come up with the smoking gun that will cause his own party to find him ineligible, but meanwhile the political effort continues to take back control of Congress from the Maoists, to make him more ineffective than he naturally is, and to vote him out in 2012 replacing him with a conservative.
Let’s not lose sight of the goal - 51 Senators 218 + Representatives in 2010, and then adding the White House in 2012.
Please refer to my comment #86.
No, he would love the birther issue.
RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
The leftists love it when birthers are pretty much one issue people and when they focus on only one constitutional issue and put down other people helping enforce the Constitution on other issues.
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” Who do you think is pushing the ridicule? The leftists. And birthers are bringing it on themselves, and actually encouraging ridicule. Alinsky approves
RULE 12: “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
I winced when I saw Farah was a speaker at the Tea Party convention. He is a grifter and a hack and will be a parasite on the movement. For him to challenge ANYONE’s journalistic standing is the height of arrogance.
I don’t suggest that at all.
But you have two different problems and are treating it as one.
Finding that he is not eligible is not going to resolve our problem of today, which is to keep him from passing any more Marxist legislation and appointing Marxists to high office.
Electing the right people in 2010 is a more direct way to do that.
Finding he is not eligible does give us the hope that a mechanism can be set up to prevent his running in 2012 and to insure that no one in the future is able to circumvent the Constitution in this manner.
So it is my opinion, obviously not agreed to here, that proving him to be not eligible should be done quietly and without tying the conservative movement to it because that distracts from the immediate goal.
It also insulates the conservative movement from looking like idiots in case he really is eligible or more likely, in the event that it is not possible to prove that he is ineligible.
We don’t want to look like Prince Charles and the GW nut cases.
By the same token, I think it not wise for the conservatives who have done so to deride those who are trying to prove he is ineligible. They would be better served to watch from the sidelines and say nothing.
Proving him not is a long long road and not as easy as some think. If you want to see how complex it is, check this link to see the cases tried in past years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States
And above all, remember O. J. Simpson. Knowing he was guilty did not make it possible to prove it in a manner acceptable to those who chose not to believe.
******
Name of birth doctor: All I want is for Obama or one of his close people to tell us the name of his birth doctor.
I wish one of the tv people who interviews Obama or one of his close people in the near future would ask them to simply name Obama's birth doctor.
Is that too much to ask of the President of the United States? I don't think so.
1 Certified copy of original birth certificate
2 Columbia University transcripts
3 Columbia thesis paper
4 Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups
5 Harvard University transcripts
6 Illinois State Senate records
7 Illinois State Senate schedule
8 Law practice client list and billing records/summary
9 Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mother
10 Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)
11 Occidental College Transcripts
12 Parent’s marriage Certificate
13 Record of baptism
14 Selective Service registration records
(Did Obama Actually Register for Selective Service?
This supposed revelation of 0's SS records has been debunked here and here.)
15 Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
16 Passport records for all passports
17 Scholarly articles
18 SAT and LSAT test scores
19 Access to his grandmother in Kenya
20 List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists
21 Punahou grade school records
22 Noelani Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.
23 Page 11 of Stanley Ann Dunham's divorce decree.
24 Why did Barack Obama resign from the Illinois bar and where are all of the relevant documents?
25 Why did Michelle Obama resign from the Illinois bar after only about four years of practice and where are all of the relevant documents?
Anyone who cares about their country would be very concerned that a POTUS had hidden every scrap of information of his life that he possibly could.
REALITY: The ship B.O.B.C. sailed years ago, and you’re just dog-paddling in its wake...while he laughs at you from the fantail.
How does it hurt the opposition? How does it hurt the few people who are able to question his legality?
Why not let some people (not any political party in particular) rattle on and on about his birth certificate. I see no harm in it. I see no embarassment for wanting to see a damn birth certificate or any proof of eligibility. Who cares if we’re called birthers. Big deal!
Let the people organize. Let them keep the heat on. Make Obama spend money trying to keep it all hidden. Let people become more aware of what this azz in the WH is. A liar and unfit for office. Why not? The left have many organized clubs to attack different people constantly. We set on our thumbs, hoping someone will come to the rescue. I say, let’s get on with the truth finding. It won’t hold anyone running for office back. It won’t embarass me.
Not in the beginning because they wanted a whole party, and proving that Obama was not eligible and dems were in collusion to keep those facts hidden destroys....not just marginalizes that party.
Keep in mind the first case was brought up by a Hillary camp lawyer. They were hoping that the issue would have been taken up by the press before winning the election causing him to bow out and Hillary left as winner.
Now the thought of Obama being proven ineligible means huge repercussions for their party for decades to come.... So lets see the proof, it does not harm Republicans if he is proved eligible they just followed the law, either way it has harmed dems.....they don't supply proof they look shady until they do and causing more and more to question them. If they do prove it then the questions of why have you waited and any dirt no matter how small will now have everybody interested in it and will not blow over.
Either way dems have played this one poorly....their last risky hope are marxist propaganda tactics demonizing the group bringing it up....but has that group grown to large for it to work???? I think so if over half of us think something is wrong there, they have lost the battle.
No. Agreement on some unifying principles has been the glue for some very bad organizations. Yes, I’m thinking the H word, the S word, the M word, etc. Mere unity on principle is nothing if the principles are deficient. Conservatism is about far more important things than the size of government or fiscal responsibility. Why value small government and free markets? Because it liberates the private sector and allows individuals to be rewarded according to their effort.
Those worthy objectives are all byproducts of the deep respect for the individual embodied by our law, which in turn is rooted in the God-given rights of each of us to live (unborn or otherwise), be free, and pursue our happiness. These are all connected in the Constitution, which is why observing and honoring the Constitution is NOT a negotiable part of our “movement.”
Thus, if we begin to say it is OK to alter the Constitution without consent of the governed, we have given away the game, and set a precedent that will eventually erode all our other freedoms. No, we must hold our leaders to their constitutional commitments, or we will wake up one day to find we have very little left of our Republic that is worth saving.
"The MSM, Obama and Dems would fume and sputter, but to no avail. Obama would have to cough up the original BC or explain why he was leaving his name off of a State's ballot.
"And it doesn't matter which State. Be it ever so red, or have only 3 electoral votes, an incumbent President can't be leaving his name off the ballot of any one of the 57 States.
"Birther efforts should be directed solely to this end, as it at once both brings Obama to task, advances the cause of the States against the Federal power, and brings the Constitution to the forefront."
I agree completely with what you said. In fact, I'd been thinking along those lines. Thanks for stating them.
Birther efforts should be directed solely to this end; to wit, have one State require documentation of Natural Born Status. Hell! I'd settle to have one state require a damn long form b.c. JUST LIKE US LITTLE PEOPLE HAVE TO PRODUCE!
I ain't looking to impeach or get even -- I just want a little respect from the man who the majority elected president.
We are not a one issue people. There are plenty of issues going on.
The BC and docs are a small part of many issues.
All we need is some nads willing to stand up.
I do agree, we’ll probably be able to know the truth, at least while he’s in office because he is protected by a high sources. He was “chosen” for sure.
He makes a willing puppet.
It is not a winning issue because we ALREADY lost!
I remember when this crap was all going on months before the 08 election and the supposed voices of reason were saying. No! Not now. Now is not the time to force the issue. Don't worry ... wait till after the election when we would have standing before the courts.
Bull $hit! I have around more than half a century ... long enough to know human nature pretty well. Enough to predict probable outcomes from what I see going on in the present.
I knew damn well that if Obamas natural born status was not hammered before the election the issue would be marginalized after the election and the Birthers would be criticized. It was easily predictable.
Instead of waiting for the right moment we should have taken to the streets if necessary to demand proof of his qualifications to serve as POTUS BEFORE the 08 election.
But the more rational among us told us to wait. And now the more rational among us tell is it is not a winning issue! Thanks for the advice.
So yes, you are right. It is not a wining issue because we already lost. The precedent has been set and the Constitution usurped. Expect more interlopers in the White House in the future as the Constitution means squat now.
You claim impeachment is a necessity, but there is not constitutional authority to impeach a non-president.
The portion of my post you reproduced corresponds perfectly with the 20th amendment. If unqualified, Barack is not and was not President - even though he pretended to be. Unless of course, possession is ten tenths of the law.
Unraveling the mess will be an epic tale, to be sure.
Carville and Begala were not secretive about their plan to make it all about Starr. And they were very successful to the point that by the time the proceedings made it all the way through the Republican controlled congress, they just wanted it to all go away. The Republican leaders in the Senate threw Henry Hyde under the bus.
Once it was in the hands of the politicians, public perception triumphed over truth and law.
Excellent response, thank you.
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