Pinging tired_old_conservative & curiosity.
Don't want to confuse you two with facts, so you probably won't be interested in reading post #137.
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Posted on 01/06/2010 5:41:28 PM PST by RobinMasters
Contrary to the claims of critics of citizens who demand Barack Obama produce evidence of his presidential eligibility, newspaper birth announcements in Hawaiian newspapers in 1961 did not necessarily indicate a baby was born in the state.
As WND reported, Glenn Beck ridiculed the so-called birther movement on his nationally syndicated radio show Monday, pointing to identical birth announcements published in the Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star-Bulletin as evidence Obama was born in Hawaii and, therefore, is a natural-born citizen as required by the Constitution.
Beck, and two colleagues, mocked "birthers" for purportedly believing a wild conspiracy in which Obama's parents, knowing he would someday be president, "preemptively" collaborated with two separate newspapers to publish phony announcements stating he was born in Hawaii.
(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...
14th amendment:
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
I don't see the words "natural born citizen" in there anywhere. I see "born" and "citizen", but not even "born citizen", let alone "natural born citizen".
Pinging tired_old_conservative & curiosity.
Don't want to confuse you two with facts, so you probably won't be interested in reading post #137.
.
Actually it does. It is the only thing in the Constitution that defines citizenship. The “natural born” requirement must be interpreted in accordance with the plain meaning of the 14th Amendment. Amendments, by nature, override the original text of the Constitution.
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship and makes it a birthright that may not be impaired by the United States or the several states without due process of law.
Have you seen this? #’s 15, 17, 20 and 21 would most definately enhance their chance to succeed at their overall goals.... and they seem to have been accomplished.
January 10, 1963
Current Communist Goals
EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA
IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Thursday, January 10, 1963
Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.
At Mrs. Nordman’s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen:
[From “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen]
CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS
1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture—education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [”]united force[”] to solve economic, political or social problems.
43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.
And it doesn't matter a hoot in a hollar. His father, if his father is who he claims, was never a US Citizen, and thus he cannot be a Natural Born Citizen.
Yes, I’ve seen it. Unfortunately, there’s no evidence of it coming from anywhere except Mr. Skousen’s imagination.
You are incorrect. The 14th amendment DOES NOT mention Natural Born Citizenship at all. It is clear that the founding fathers relied upon the only available definition of Natural Born Citizen at the time, which was from Vattel's Law of Nations. That definition states that both parents had to be citizens to confer Natural Born Status.
I read it. Didn't see any facts there, though. Just lots of unsupported and uninformed opinions.
Thanks anyway for the ping.
**Birth Certificate APPLICATION WAS NOT LODGED BY MADELYN DUNHAM.
She would NOT misspell her own name.
Note carefully:
When do such misspellings happen?
STREET - someone who is not a Hawaiian resident...but knows how to use a typewriter.
MADELYN...MADLYN! you got to be kidding. Who ever wrote that must have been TOLD what her name was. IT’S A CLASSIC PHONETIC TRANSCRIPTION ERROR.
same with ERICSON FOR ERICKSON.
Now who could that apply to?
Someone who took the application away, typed it up, filled in the signatures, (all of them by the same hand)
And took it back to lodge where-ever such applications go,
WHERE THEY then FILED IT. BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PROOF OF BIRTH.**
See:
http://s668.photobucket.com/albums/vv47/MissieBessie/?action=view¤t=postandmail-2.jpg
-
Click on photo to enlarge:
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/ad288/ParkerShannon/Images/NordykeBirthAnnoucement.gif
Another FRmail, posted with permission:
**So the sequence of events gives the lie to the announcements being automatically generated - ever since we saw that zero application and the way it was filled in, we could see that a relative or parent could complete the application and present it - to have the birth registered.
The process (at least in 1961) was the lodgement of an application completed by relative or parent, take it to the registration branch, and obtain a certified birth certificate.
But you can’t get one of those, unless you have something from the hospital to prove the child was ACTUALLY BORN.
Then announce it the birth in the local papers. In the case of Nordyke, they did that about two weeks after the birth. And we can understand why. It had to do with the health of the children. No one would announce the birth of twins in a newspaper if it looked as if one of them might not make it.
But in 1961 when zero was born (lord knows where) all they wanted to achieve is a RECORD OF THE BIRTH.
AND AN ANNOUNCEMENT IN THE PAPER.
They got what they wanted. But what they never got, and what he cannot get now, IS A PROPER CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE!
All he has been able to get is an abstract of the original APPLICATION.**
[Many thanks to those who provided this information.]
I never understood why the existence of the birth announcements somehow proved Zero was born there. In addition to the WND explanation it seems a simple concept that the grandparents would want people to know of the birth of the grandson.
The glaring error that proves that document to be a rather clumsy fraud is that it cites Hawaiian law HRS 338-18.8, which wasn’t enacted until 1982.
Good find!
You are incorrect. The 14th amendment DOES NOT mention Natural Born Citizenship at all. It is clear that the founding fathers relied upon the only available definition of Natural Born Citizen at the time, which was from Vattel’s Law of Nations. That definition states that both parents had to be citizens to confer Natural Born Status.
I never understood why the existence of the birth announcements somehow proved Zero was born there. In addition to the WND explanation it seems a simple concept that the grandparents would want people to know of the birth of the grandson.
The glaring error that proves that document to be a rather clumsy fraud is that it cites Hawaiian law HRS 338-18.8, which wasn’t enacted until 1982.
Oh. Duh.
But the other concept about registering the birth that occurred out of state as WND still stands...right?
Oh. Duh.
But the other concept about registering the birth that occurred out of state as WND still stands...right?
In the more than two years that questions about Obama’s birthplace have been raised, not one city attorney, county attorney, district attorney, state Attorney General or US Attorney in the entire nation has bothered to simply seek a subpoena for Obama’s original birth records which is allowable under Hawaii statutes.
In what way?
The Indiana attorney general used flawed logic. He assumes wrongly that Natural Born Citizen = Natural Born Subject. The founding fathers meant what they wrote. They Specifically wrote Natural Born CITIZEN as defined by Vattel in The Law of Nations.
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