Posted on 11/07/2009 8:07:41 PM PST by jern
Just had the 218th vote, which is what they need to psas th ebill
Finally. This is the kind of point that has to be made to stop this from getting anywhere real. The facts.
We all fell for the same old trick of focusing on a couple of real but not THE REAL points of this debate. The “conversations” leading up to this debate were, in my opinion, not the points that REALLY matter. Sure federally funded abortion is important and so is the illegal immigrant issue, but they used these to deflect away from the real issues.
Here are the real issues and how to wake up average Bob from blindly saying he wants “health care reform”:
Lay out the facts:
1. They say they are doing this to help all of those people who can’t afford health care. Tell those people who are currently paying nothing how much of their budget they will now have to fork over for it. Many of the folks I know that are for it, don’t carry any health insurance on the their families, none=$0 of current budget. They do have all the fun things in life, motorcycles, vacations, drugs, eat out etc. How much will they now HAVE to pay for mandated health care or go to jail or have it put in their taxes next year. There goes their cherished Earned Income Credit. Trust me, they think health care reform is free health care. Pointing this out clearly will lose most of that support immediately.
2. So, if everybody is having a hard time paying for the houses they shouldn’t have bought, but we have to find a way to keep them in them and paying for them or the bottom will fall out of the housing market leading to an economic meltdown, how can you throw another 15K into their budgets and avert the meltdown?
3. Show the responsible who are insured how much their coverage will cost after this goes into effect. Same rates for men and women, same for preexisting conditions, no limits on coverage etc. If you’re currently paying $400-$800 / month, you will now be paying $THIS ($1500 / m?). That will wake up these people. Individuals do not have pricing power or taxing authority. They will have to find the money in a relatively fixed income situation. By the way, getting another job or employing a nonworking spouse isn’t so easy these days (10 % UE +). Ask them where they are going to come up with the money. Those on employer plans are not immune either. They have seen the companies paying less and less over the last bunch of years, so they know the premium will be passed to them. Wake these people up, too.
If someone can put these numbers out there in a simple 100 word summary in simple English, maybe people will understand what they are “supporting”.
Why do we not just de-fund it?”
Maybe it’s time for a National sick out for a designated length of time. How much money would it cost the Feds if about 30 to 50 million people called in sick for a week or two?Starve the Beast of our tax dollars.
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Yeah, we’re going to need more tactics and techniques to think about like this - to starve the beast. We need to move in coordinated actions.
Swim to America! Free health care, education...
Oh, by the way. Republicans don’t care about any of these real issues. They just care about being perceived as putting up a good enough fight in order to get reelected so they can do the stealing that they do.
I have to say, I admire the Dems in their strategy and discipline. I wish we could play hardball that way when we’re in the majority. Now, I do congratulate Boehner and the rest-—I think the GOP was near perfect (Cao the only defection, but still wouldn’t have mattered) and did all they could do to stop this. But you can’t lose elections. Elections have consequences.
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Good points all. 2010 will have MAJOR consequences also - as people respond finally to being completely ignored by their reps.
How many of these idiots did not READ the 1900 page bill, understand the bill, nor could they summarize the main salient points to their consituents?
They are worse than incompetent and recalictrant - it is a complete deriliction of their official duties.
In short they are acting like unelected marxists.
We need to UNELECT them.
Their legacy? They’ll point to HR3962 and say - “yeah, that’s the POS socialist crap that we passed - and that for the next 5 years, the nation had to clean off the wall we threw it against over the objections of the nation.”
Oh, they won’t put it that way, they’ll say something about ‘historic legislation’...blah, blah, blah.
Here's the email that is going out to the Obama faction list:
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Dear xxxxxxxxxx:
Late last night, the United States House of Representatives passed their health care bill with a vote of 220 to 215.1
Click here to find out how your Member of Congress voted and thank them if they voted for health care for all of us.
History was made last night.
Never before in this country has the House of Representatives passed a comprehensive health care bill. The bill passed last night will guarantee us all quality, affordable health care. It will rein in insurance company abuses. And it will give us the choice of a public health insurance option.
A vote for this bill last night was a vote for the American people, for making health care a right. A vote against was a vote to continue to leave Americans' health and livelihoods at the mercy of the insurance industry.
Click here to find out how your Representative voted. If they voted for us, they deserve our thanks. If they voted against us, they deserve our outrage.
Your calls, faxes, and emails over the course of this campaign have brought us to this point. Members of Congress have told us they have heard you, and it is in large part due to your continued support that this bill passed the House of Representatives last night.
Like all bills, it was not perfect. We were particularly disappointed that 64 Democrats joined almost all the Republicans in voting to deny some women access to abortion services, which are a standard part of health insurance now. We will work, with your support, to fix this serious issue before the final bill is passed.2
With the House bill passed, the Senate now must pass a bill to move the process forward towards the day when health reform is the law of this land. We will be calling on you more than ever to make sure the Senate passes a bill that meets our principles for real health care reform.
We can win this fight together.
To your health,
Levana Layendecker
Health Care for America Now
I also agree with everything you said and I’m glad to hear your doing well after your medical problems.
This is an absolute unmitigated disaster, what happened last night, in the cloak of darkness, and there is no silver lining.
We are rapidly descending into third-worlddom and we all have huge trials and tribulations in our future related to the fact that the majority of Americans, in their infinite stupidity, decided to hand over the fate of the only free nation on earth to a f*n commie muzzie ineligible b*tard.
Oh, by the way. Republicans don’t care about any of these real issues. They just care about being perceived as putting up a good enough fight in order to get reelected so they can do the stealing that they do.
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jgophel - you make EXCELLENT points in your prior post! Not all Republicans ‘don’t care’. The leadership has been astray - to be sure - but is showing signs of life and this pretty disciplined vote was a sign of life.
There is still a massive amount of conservative energy in the GOP. I know they’ve been frustrating - but we need to define our criticism of the GOP clearly, imho.
This is an absolute unmitigated disaster, what happened last night, in the cloak of darkness, and there is no silver lining.
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We cannot, and must not, quit fighting.
“We will work, with your support, to fix this serious issue before the final bill is passed.”
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This BILL doesn’t even have majority support in this country - let alone forcing people to fund abortions. These people are insane to be crowing about anything - but especially that. It shows us just how far they are overreaching.
People are saying there is no silver lining. The silver lining may be in bringing this country back from the breach of total socialism in 2010.
That’s the silver lining.
These idiotic comments are just going to make it more certain that that happens.
We need to use EVERY tool at our disposal - all our earnest discipline, all our initiative and clever ideas, all of our diplomacy and communicative skills, prayer to the Father for success and wisdom and guidance...
AS WE WAGE THIS WAR FOR OUR NATION’S SOUL.
It is time folks.
This serious battle is enjoined. If you need anymore motivation: Lenin once said that “medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism.”
Hard to find though. I agree, probably not all, but most, and it certainly doesn’t seem to be enough to protect us. Somehow, we need to find a way to stop playing their (politician’s) game and make them play our game.
Maybe a real constitutional based wing of the GOP can emerge or a third party will have to emerge. It will have to swift considering the risks of splitting the vote for too long. I think this is what Sarah Palin is up to. She is not GOP, and that will begin to show over the next year or so. We can only hope she can do it fast enough. We have to be willing to support whoever will stand up for conservative principals. Moderates have no place, especially these days.
I’m afraid you are correct. I had been hoping Pelousy would screw it up but she worked the numbers and negotiated it down to the bone.
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This 1900 page bill
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf
passed in the middle of the night, by just a couple of votes, looks bad and smells bad to *any* objective observer (including the vast center of this nation) - no matter how much maneuvering was done to limit the number of socialist canards people had to fall on.
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I am thoroughly disgusted by the Republican party, and it’s going to take a conservative takeover of the party to bring it to sanity and victory.
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I agree with pulling the R party back to its conservative base. NY 23 was one almost successful forray and there will be others, successful and not that we must attempt to make this happen.
I am so tired of this whole health care crap. I really can’t take it any more. Let if effin’ pass. The rats OWN it. It will take them down. When it fails the people will be begging Republicans to reverse it. Healthcare will be so screwed up that the rats will be out of power for decades.
Maybe a real constitutional based wing of the GOP can emerge or a third party will have to emerge. It will have to swift considering the risks of splitting the vote for too long. I think this is what Sarah Palin is up to. She is not GOP, and that will begin to show over the next year or so. We can only hope she can do it fast enough. We have to be willing to support whoever will stand up for conservative principals. Moderates have no place, especially these days.
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Sarah Palin may not be GOP, but, like it or not, whatever Conservative movement emerges - they will have to work WITH the GOP, or co-opt the GOP to have any national power whatsoever.
Why?
In the history of the United States, not a single third party has come close to winning the presidency, only 7 3rd parties have even won a single state’s electoral votes and only 5 third parties have won even 10% of the vote.
When it fails the people will be begging Republicans to reverse it. Healthcare will be so screwed up that the rats will be out of power for decades.
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With all due respect, that is a pretty risky path. It’s kind of like saying, once the liberals spend us into oblivion (which they’re currently doing - including the idiot RINOs), then the people will rise up and we can fix the debt problem, and we conservatives will be in power for decades.
I don’t like that approach. Do you know how hard it will be to get this nation out of the massive debt we’re in?
Better to fight now - we’ve got lots of momentum on our side - this stupid vote by the POS Pelosi wing notwithstanding.
I’d feel like we had more of a fighting chance if we didn’t have to rely on McCain, Graham, Snowe, Collins, etc. They have the votes with or without Republicans. They are going to cram it through. We’ve marched on DC, we’ve called, we’ve emailed, we’ve attended townhalls. What else can we do?
What do you think will happen when the Senate gets going on ObamaCare? (FWIW, Lieberman claims he'll filibuster with the Republicans)
Do you think a socialistic monstrosity - similar to the PelosiCare bill - will ultimately be signed into law?
Yes. I do. All your e-mails, tea parties, Liberty groups, whatever don’t mean SQUAT to these people. Only votes. Mao said power comes from the end of a gun, and in a democracy, the only power is in the election.
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