Clear, clear it is, of Ishmael you do not know. For some other god you do speak ... or perniciously presumptuous you remain in your ignorance
Posted on 10/26/2009 7:51:02 AM PDT by Scythian
I'm a huge Beck fan, in fact I'm listening right now here
http://www.ksfa860.com/common/gap_streamer.php
but something really confuses me. It takes the ability to use real critical thinking to know what Beck (and most of us know about the state of the country and where we are heading). That is, we have the ability to discover the truth no matter how much the media or conventional wisdom try to hide it. Yet on Mormonism, Beck is cleary wrong. Any Christian knows that the book or momonism is severely flawed and that Joseph Smith was no prophet. How can Beck cut through all the chaff of what is going on in our world and come to the truth and yet believe the writings of Joseph Smith? It doesn't make sense? I'm not saying he's up to something secret, not by any means, it's just that he's so right about so many things and completely wrong on the most important thing. Now, he just said on the air that he believes Jesus is the Savior of the world and that he is Mormon.
I also think that because he is Mormon he is not attacked near as much if he was a Evangelical Bible only believer. Anyway, am I nutz or does Beck being a Mormon seem bizarre?
YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSS
:)
The home he purchased 40 years ago in a normal neighborhood.
The home he purchased 40 years ago in a normal neighborhood.
The home he purchased 40 years ago in a normal neighborhood.
Munsun moved into the luxury pentehouse condo on top of the mormon company headquarters building when he became the non-profit...
Wait a minute. (I thought Mormons have been telling us there were two dozen "original" apostles -- 12 in the Middle East; another dozen somewhere between the tip of South America & Hill Cumorah???) Now, you're telling us there were only "12" original ones?
Tell us, Lawsone. Why does the Lds church have a "Qurom of the 12 apostles" when they believe they were restoring the church to its original shape -- which, if the BoM is true, would be 24? Isn't the Lds church openly confessing to us that at the highest levels, they, too, don't really believe that the BoM is non-fiction?
If our leadership and our beliefs are evil then we must also be evil in your eyes. You can’t have it both ways. If you hate my leadership then you hate me.
Lawsone, we don't hate anyone. The apostle Paul said we battle not vs. flesh & blood. I mean, I don't think you hate us. Yet, what if I asked you if you believed that 1 Nephi 14:9-10 is a true statement? [Talks about there only being 2 churches -- the church of the Lamb, which Lds say is their church -- and then the rest of the churches fall under the one umbrella as the church of Satan]
Come on, lawsone. It really doesn't get much worse than Lds labeling every other church as "the church of Satan." Yet, just because you may think us as "Satanic" doesn't mean I equate that to you "hating" us. I'm not sure why that's such a common FR & Mormon kneejerk reaction other than liberal indoctrination has made its way thru the American heartland.
The apostle Paul realized that even some religious contemporaries of his day preached the gospel out of selfish ambition. Did he get all bent out of shape over that? No. (see Phil. 1:15-18)
If our leadership and our beliefs are evil...
As for your beliefs, we're not the ones labeling 100% of Mormon articles of faith/beliefs/creeds as being "abominable" now are we? Yet if you open up your Pearl of Great Price to Joseph Smith - History, vv. 18-20 -- what do Lds believe is the case of Christian sect creeds? Well, according to a 14 yo lad named Smith, they are 100% an "abomination" to the Mormon god.
I challenge you to read The Apostles Creed & tell me what's so "abominable" about that creed! [Keep in mind the word "catholic" -- small "c"-- just meant "universal" when it was written]
Wrong framing. God told Hosea to marry a prostitute, Gomer, who remained a prostitute post-marriage. Even if we conceded your very weak argument, that wouldn't make plural marriage a divine institution any more than Gomer's "cottage industry." Lots of things are "biblical" -- idolatry, murder, warfare, etc. -- doesn't make them "god-ordained."
The Lord blessed Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, polygamists all.
Well, first of all, you've taken Smith at his word that Isaac was a polygamist. All you've done, though, is slander him. The Bible says nothing about Isaac being a polygamist. (You need to apologize to Isaac re: your reputation mongering). He had one wife, Rebekah.
Secondly, Jacob became a polygamist by way of deception. Is that what you'd like to do as a future father-in-law? Deal your 2nd daughter into the honeymoon picture when your son-in-law is expecting your other daughter? You want to institutionalize that as an "ideal"? And then you want them to have such a baby-making competition so that they bring their slaves into the picture, too? (Wow!)
There was a need to build up Abraham’s posterity. The Lord obviously approved, perhaps to build up the kingdom.
#1 As you mentioned, Hagar never married when Sarah gave her to Abraham to bear children ... if you're going to assume that this is what prompts God to bless you -- how you are having sex -- then boy, you need to re-read the life of David. I can tell you that the Bathsheba incident coupled w/what happened to Bathsheba's husband was not something we should emulate just because "God blessed David."
#2 False assumption. Abraham didn't have that many children, did he? Let's take a more contemporary example of someone you may regard as a "posterity...builder of the kingdom" -- Brigham Young. He had 27 women. 57 kids. In 19th century America, that only worked out to an average of just barely over 2 kids per bedpartner -- well below the demographic average of the times in the U.S.
Young had 57 kids divided by two dozen bedpartners = less than 2.4 kids per partner. When you consider that 9 partners aged 19-29 at marriage collectively gave Brigham Young "zero" children...
...and another six women gave him six TOTAL children (and these were women aged 18-25 at marriage)...
...and then another two women only gave him two children per (ages 18 & 20, respectively at marriage)...
...for a total of 17 women who had 2 or less children...
...you realize that Brigham probably kept another 50 children from being born by being a "female consumer" of plural bedpartners.
No. For the most part, polygamy lowered the avg. # of children born by each plural "partner" by robbing other men of a wife & family.
Some of the greatest people I know came from these families. (I know you will love that statement)
(Well, a personal "thank you" for this compliment! :) )
(Yeah, that's why we had the Mormon church in Salt Lake City Tuesday supporting the city's agenda to force businessmen to hire cross-dressers & every manner of "sexual orientation" & tell landlords they have to participate in the sins of others by sanctioning every manner of "sexual orientation" lifestyles on their property...all because that's the "future of conservatism" eh?)
Is plural marriage biblical?
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Of course not...
God condemned the practice...
Christians are commanded not to commit adultery...
We are told to have only one man and one woman in our marriages..
However Joey Smith introduced deviant sex in the form of “plural marriage” or polygamy into his homemade religion...
He invented the term “spiritual wife” and proceeded from about 1825 on to have sex with as many young women as he could get his filthy hands on..
He especially prided his overblown ego by seducing unwilling virgins...
When his one real lawful wife Emma objected, he and his homies made up some story about sex with at least 10 virgins were necessary for godhood amnd godhood was necessary to get to the mormon afterlife...
They added that the mormon god would kill/destroy Emma if she kept objecting to Joey Smiths philandering cheatin ways...
They wrote the porn and Jihadist death threats towards Emma down on paper with lots of “it came to pass” and “thus sez the mormon two headed goat god” and presented it to Emma...
Emma threw the porn in the fire...
Good for her...good thing she did get rid of that foul document...
because while Emma lived a good old age long afterwards...
The God of the Bible destroyed the pagan Joey Smith...
The God of the Bible is Righteous and wont stand for such evil twisting of His commandments...
Mormonism has nothing to do with Christianity and nothi ng to do with the God of the Bible...
Even Hincklee said that the Christian Jesus of the Bible was not the spiritguide jesus that the new ager mormons follow...
The book of mormon is not called a testament of another jesus for nothing...
The foul putrid beliefs and doctrines and practices of mormonism turns the stomach of this Christian...
Some of the greatest people I know came from these families. (I know you will love that statement)
(Well, a personal “thank you” for this compliment! :) )
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See lawsone ???
In spite of yourself kid...
You CAN say nice things about the Christians...
We love colofornian too...
and the other FReepers from polygamous families...
Their lives are miracles...
God help them to escape the foul practice...
and their posts here are a blessing...
Thank you for your compliments to my lovely FRiends...
:)
Clear, clear it is, of Ishmael you do not know. For some other god you do speak ... or perniciously presumptuous you remain in your ignorance
Do you realize that Lds own 1% of ag land in the state of Florida? Do you realize that they keep up a good chunk of it w/"volunteers" who earn nothing? -- in fact, they are less than slave labor because these retired couples have to pay their way to "serve" the farms there. Do you realize then that they are able to operate like a commercial enterprise w/little labor overhead @ non-profit tax rates?
Hey, that's OK. Jim Jones did the same thing first in Northern CA & then in Guyana.
Then there's the other problems the LDS church creates w/their commercial produce enterprise -- like this article from Jan '08 re: Idaho (& states it did the same thing in Washington state):
Source: http://www.agweekly.com/articles/2008/01/29/news/ag_news/new s55.txt
Headline: Farmers face off with LDS Church
By Carol Ryan Dumas, Ag Weekly editor January 18, 2008
BURLEY, Idaho — What riled up Cassia and Twin Falls county farmers and drew about 250 people to a meeting at the Pella Stake Jan. 9 might have been fueled by nothing more than rumor and conjecture, said an official from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
In question was what local farmers believe was the church’s intention of turning 10,000 to 12,000 acres it owns and leases to area farmers into a direct operation, wherein a church management team would handle production and local farmers would lose their leases.
Farmers here worried the church would mirror what it did in the Pascal, Wash., area, where its huge land holdings went from locally operated to church operated.
Heber Loughmiller, a Twin Falls County farmer and LDS Church member who raises three pivots of potatoes, among other crops, said the church was going to use the land to tie up a large amount of contracts with Lamb-Weston. That would put area farmers at a distinct disadvantage in negotiating contract prices because the church-operated farm could produce spuds cheaper.
“Three-hundred and fifty acres of potatoes is pretty key to us,” he said of his operation. “The LDS Church could come in and raise 40 pivots.”
In addition, farmers who lost leases would be competing with other farmers for ground, and area businesses and vendors would be out of the loop.
“The problem is they (the church) don’t buy anything local. The church doesn’t do that, they buy direct,” he said. “The only money locally would be salaries.”
Loughmiller said he sees quite a few farmers loosing their leases and contracts if the church changes to a direct operation.
“How would this be a gain for the community?” he asked.
“Their reply was they weren’t coming to where they’re not wanted. But they didn’t commit to more than one year. “We held ‘em off for a year,” he added, saying the same thing happened last year.
Loughmiller also contends the church intentionally planned the meeting at a time when many of the active local church leaders were away at conventions and the like.
Clark Hirschi, a manager in public affairs at LDS headquarters in Salt Lake City, said Loughmiller doesn’t have things quite right.
He said the church doesn’t operate that way, that it is upfront and candid.
“And that would imply we had something to be afraid of,” he added.
He said rumors that the church had already made a decision to go to direct management was why the meeting was held, and farmers’ attendance and comments didn’t affect any nonexistent pre-made decision.
“No decision has been made or had been made,” he said. “There is no decision, there was no decision and there is still no decision. Up until now there has been no intention to go to direct operated.”
Hirschi said the Washington operation and the fact that the church only gives one-year leases could have sparked the rumors, but that’s all they were.
Declo farmer Mark Darrington, however, is also concerned the church intended to take over management and does not see that as being in the best interest of his community.
“I am an active member of the Mormon Church, but facts is facts,” he said. “I did not want them to turn this into a big corporate farm because of the impact on the local community.”
For one, he said, “local vendors are bypassed. I think that puts a bad taste not just in non-members’ mouth but also in members’ mouth.”
He said the church’s Farm Management Corporation (renamed Farmland Reserve Inc.) is “well run, well managed, and well capitalized and has to take advantage of all opportunities. But sometimes taking advantage of all opportunities steps on some toes.”
Those toes would be area farmers and businesses.
He said the church setting up a large entity and garnering large potato contracts would have an adverse effect on growers’ ability to negotiate a good price. Growers would be competing with a “thing” not other growers. And the church keeps its negotiations confidential, where growers are more likely to collude on prices.
“The church tends to not cooperate with growers,” he said.
“They (church) have a history of making very large contracts,” he said. “It makes it very difficult on the rest of the folks trying to bargain a contract.”
“You don’t like to compete against your own government, and you don’t like to compete against your own church,” he added.
Darrington said he also worries about access to services if the church doesn’t deal locally and puts those service suppliers out of business.
“We don’t benefit from someone like that. I’d like to keep a healthy economy, local businesses,” he said.
Darrington said the church has huge holdings south of Burley, and the issue could have a huge impact on the local community.
“I don’t mean to be disparaging,” he said. “I just don’t agree that’s the best way to manage that land for a healthy community.”
Hirschi said he couldn’t address the local vendor issue. The church does own its own storage and processing facilities and, logically, the church would run its operation as economically as possible. But, he said, there are two tenets on which the church establishes a direct operation: It must be in the best interest of the community, and it must be welcomed by the community.
Clearly, neither is the case here, judging from local response.
I like the graph about how Farm Management Corporation (renamed Farmland Reserve Inc.) is “well run, well managed, and well capitalized and has to take advantage of all opportunities" coupled with the competitive advantages the Lds church holds. I mean, if they're bringing in virtual slave labor, of course they're "taking advantage of all [competitive] opportunities!"
Do you realize that Lds own 1% of ag land in the state of Florida? Do you realize that they keep up a good chunk of it w/”volunteers” who earn nothing? — in fact, they are less than slave labor because these retired couples have to pay their way to “serve” the farms there. Do you realize then that they are able to operate like a commercial enterprise w/little labor overhead @ non-profit tax rates?
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Mormonism equals slavery...
What selfish greedy criminals those LDS profits are...
Just in it for the money...
They dont even pay their preachers and teachers like we are told to do in the Bible...
But then the Christian Bible is of no concern of the mormons...
For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 1 Corinthians 9:9
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer [is] worthy of his reward. 1 Titus 5:18
I am truly sorry for your bad experience, unfortunately some people do and say hateful things. I have never had anything but good work related experiences. There are good and bad people in every religion.
If it had been a protestant “Christian” would you have given up your faith? We all must remember The Saviour’s words,”Do good to those who despitefully use you” Does holding a grudge for all of this time fit in with the scriptures?
I am truly sorry for your bad experience, unfortunately some people do and say hateful things
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Kid my post was about your stealth post to me via FReepmail...
Remember ??? It went ...
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Re: How Can Glenn Beck Be Right on So Much and Yet Still Believe the book of Mormon? (serious questi
From lawsone | 11/11/2009 12:52:54 AM PST read
It’s Monson not Munson. It seems that most of the venom you spew is just as accurate.
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the info on that first mormon was just background music...
a further example of underhanded tricks...
Since you said ...
We all must remember The Saviour’s words,”Do good to those who despitefully use you” (I’ll add the necessary Matthew 5:44)
But I say to you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which spitefully use you, and persecute you; so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. Matthew 5:44, 45
So what can I do for you, kid, to love you, bless you, do good to you, pray for you, in return for that uncharitable FReepmail that was covered in definition by the words of Jesus that you yourself attempted to quote ???
and dont worry, I’m not like other people...
I wont shun you inspite of your words to me...
I will continue to post you the truth about mormonism...
and the truth about the REAL Jesus of the Bible and Christianity...
I am very long in suffering...
I justy want mormons to be set free from that evil trap of mormonism and know the REAL Jesus...
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:32
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. John 8:36
If it had been a protestant “Christian” would you have given up your faith?
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FOCUS kid...
It was a mormon ...
and God was warning me against mormonism...
There was no “faith” involved...
Thank God I had not been tricked into the cult...
I was already a Christian...
There was no “faith” in mormonism to “give up”
Instead I was warned off ...
and spurned that trap of the devil called mormonism...
Thanks for your concern though...
I think...
Does holding a grudge for all of this time fit in with the scriptures?
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I wouldnt know...
I’m not a mindreader...
Is that what you are doing ???
Is that the reason behind some of your posts ???
Open and under the mat ???
Does holding a grudge for all of this time fit in with the scriptures?
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I wouldnt know...
You’d have to ask a mormon....
It fit into Joey Smith’s scriptures...
He even wrote his grudge down as scripture...
When he was about 20, the daughter of a Presbyterian preacher spurned him when he molested her...
and/or her father chased him off with a shotgun...
He went home and apparantly told his mother and others that he had a grudge against the Presbyterians...
“I’ve decided that Presbyterianism is untrue”
Then he told his mother and others not to attend the Presbyterian Church...
He held onto that same grudge for the next 20 years until he got himself killed in that jailbreak shootout...
If you do a search re: LDS farming in Pascal, Wash. You will come up empty, the article you showed is just another media attempt to stir up trouble. Nothing came of it. My father in law has a potatoe farm in Blackfoot, Idaho. He has no knowledge of either problem. The Church does not attempt to bankrupt anybody.
The Church uses volunter labor everywhere and we consider it a privilege. This enables us to put the money to use in the Humanitarian, welfare, education,building, and other programs to help the needy. The Tabernacle Choir is all volunteer, except the director, and has a constant waiting list to join. Choir members love it and consider it a great blessing in their lives. Because of this, The Church has no debt. In the late 1880’s the U.S. government siezed all church property (unconstitutional) and bankrupt the whole organization. The volunteering started early on when money was scarce.
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