Posted on 10/03/2009 10:46:57 PM PDT by montag813
Eight American soldiers and two Afghans have been killed in an attack on two outposts in remote eastern Afghanistan, the U.S. military said on Sunday.
A tribal militia launched the attack from a mosque and a nearby village in Nuristan, one of the most dangerous regions of Afghanistan, the U.S. military said in a statement. The Americans and Afghans repelled the attack and "inflicted heavy enemy casualties," the statement said.
In the U.S. statement, Col. Randy George described it as "a complex attack in a difficult area." The Taliban claimed responsibility.
(Excerpt) Read more at msnbc.msn.com ...
BTTT
Tuesday, May. 12, 2009
Stan McChrystal: The New U.S. Commander in Afghanistan
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1897542,00.html
General Stan McChrystal is just the guy to turn things around. On May 11, Gates announced plans to install the former Green Beret as the top U.S. and NATO commander for the troubled nation.
“Nothing went wrong and there was nothing specific,” Gates said of asking General David McKiernan, the outgoing commander, to step down just 11 months into a two-year post. “The focus here is simply on getting fresh thinking, fresh eyes on the problem.”
^
^
They wanted McChrystal, and now deny him Troops.
McChrystal is truly mistaken in his change of ROE, most Troops aren’t Green Berets and shouldn’t be put at such a disadvantage
Oct 3, 2009 4:45 pm US/Central
Afghan Officer Turns On U.S. Troops, Killing 2
Policeman Was On Mission With Troops, Then Opened Fire And Fled
An Afghan policeman on patrol with U.S. soldiers opened fire on the Americans, killing two of them before fleeing, officials said Saturday, raising questions about discipline in the ranks of the Afghan forces and possible infiltration by insurgents.
Please leave out the profanity.
Amen. And may God rest the souls of these brave men.
Very, very sad...
Back when the Afgan war was going better, I got the impression that it was mainly Special Forces troops designating targets for Predators, who would just drop smart bombs on Taliban concentrations.
If the village elders thought the response would be a few JDAMs dropped on their village, perhaps they would be less supportive of the Taliban.
‘Shiny happy people holding hands....”
It’s amazing, isn’t it, to find ourselves in some really convoluted way on the “same side” as virulent anti-war people? I never, ever believed I’d think it- let alone say it, either.
I’ve spent a good amount of time discussing this with several combat vets from both Iraq and Afghanistan. To a man, they are strongly opposed to the current ROE’s and can supply myriad examples of the consequences- not only to the soliders and marines themselves- but to the entire campaign being waged. There’s an uneasiness among them- their dads are reminded of vietnam and what happens when the leadership has no will to win. They see it happening all over again- different war, different enemy - but the same self-defeating mindset.
It cannot be stressed enough what this kind of strategy does to the morale of the warrior.
They're too busy insulting Sarah Palin and Joe Wilson.
BTW, Nancy Pelosi puts out a book and 500 people buy it; Sarah Palin puts out a book and it will sell millions and go straight to #1 on the NYT Bestseller list.
Why is no one else doing this sort of an analogy?
Anyway, I think the way of our attack should be that Obama himself, while he was campaigning, said (repeatedly) that Afghanistan was/is the RIGHT war. Because of this, 0 would have something invested in making sure things go as smoothly as possible in Afghanistan. At least, you would think.
Riiiiiiight?
** crickets **
It’s still not entirely clear to me who makes these ROE. I realize that the commander announces them and obviously defines them in a specific sense, but where do the general strategies and guidelines originate?
McChrystal actually does seem to care about his troops and it’s hard for me to imagine that out of the clear blue, he would just decide on ROE that he had to know would result in more of them getting killed.
I see some people blaming him solely for this, and maybe the blame is his alone, but it doesn’t make sense that he would do this.
Yep, it doesn’t make sense. At a point, McChrystal needs to do what he thinks is right for the Troops under his command, which probably is going to get him fired under Øcarter, but you got to do your very best no matter who is CIC as Troops are in a War zone
Ditto. But somehow this nation building attempt that lacks a solid foundation (Current literal Islam as brainwashing techniques) which was present in Europe (Free market principles/historic Christianity although not alive as it once was) and Japan (The impact of not only hearing Hirohito's voice but announcing the whole Emperor thing was a lie provided an easier transition) are absent in those tribal countries.
Only way to truly change things are killing the opium trade the brainwashing of radical Islam etc.... The rest are just temporary and hollow victories while our best are sacrificed in the process in order to make the commanders look good (Limit the collateral damage). There is an extremely cynical atmosphere in the ranks which leads to the erosion of moral.
The American State run media would be more pissed if “civilians” (Who mostly provide help/logistics in arming/Intel the Islamist) are killed then active duty members. Says a lot about who side they are on, especially spiking stories about what these “innocent civilians” are doing in helping out tribal forces (Kill them all, and put the fear of the true God into their Islamic lies).
Walls of Jericho Time should be our strategy not Vietnam/Post WWII Marshall plans. Pressure Pakistan because the USSR failed because 1) The US were supplying the resistance through Pak/other countries 2) Failed to cut off the enemies logistic capabilities
If we want Afghan as an outpost first you need to establish your will, not create ROEs that are easily taken advantage of.
>A tribal militia launched the attack from a mosque
This mosque had better be ventilated after this to keep it honest. This must not stand.
McChrystal is the one who changed them- but I’m unable to find if this was at the directive of the CIC or his own idea.
Fascinating discussion with links here:
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2009/06/23/changes-to-the-rules-of-engagement-for-afghanistan/
The VA hospital wards and self help cnters are full of Viet Nam veterans who still to this day are affected by not only what they experienced in theatre but more so from what they experienced when they got back home where they were sure they’d find comfort and respect.
I did not go to Nam but my dad did. He left as a very asutue student of the Bible and came home an angry and deeply troubled man angy at God. It was only on the day before his death that he recognized what had happened to him and the horrible consequences it brought and prayed with me and my sister for forgiveness. His anger was directed at God for the way he saw so many “kids” who suffered in their dying moments all because of the ROE.
I joined in 1971 but did not go to Nam. I went to Teheran and will to my dying day know deep inside of me that my dad had something to do with that.
His conscious is clear. In his mind, he is just doing Allah's work. If a pitcher or quarterback wants to throw a game, its pretty easy. Just drop the ball. I blame the people who voted for this jerk. Not Him.
gibson says enough already with the attention
Praying for the families of the men and women that died. Lord hold them, comfort them and give them strength in their time of sorrow.
Ron Paul is an absolute imbicile on foreign policy. To quote the Monroe Doctrine of 19th Century maritime hemisphere control in an era where a nation around the world can develop a nuke and deliver it via one of of tens of millions of cargo imports per year into this country is beyond naive. It is dangerous.
Thanks. I can’t believe that the ROE exist in a vacuum (that is, just created by the commander on the ground without any political policy behind them), and looking at his background, it’s hard to imagine that he would have done this unless the directives came from elsewhere.
If this is true, I wouldn’t be surprised if McChrystal resigned; possibly he has refrained from doing so because he is afraid it would be demoralizing, but the whole thing is demoralizing.
I think he may be one of those people who is willing himself to believe that Obama is a “normal” CIC who really does care about the troops and cares about winning. To admit otherwise, for a military man in charge of these troops, would be devastating. But I strongly suspect that after a certain point, it’s going to be impossible to deny the truth.
Obama wants us to lose, and he doesn’t care how many of our young people he has to sacrifice to do this. I personally think he doesn’t like most people in the military, anyway, and he really doesn’t care about tossing them out there and letting enough of them be killed for no reason so that the clamor will build for us to leave Afghanistan to the Taliban. This is a very, very disturbing thought, and I hope I’m wrong.
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