Obama Administration: Depressed and Disabled Veterans Should Consider Foregoing Medical Care

IsraPundit ^ | 8/19/09 | Bill Levinson

[Winged Hussar]

Depression, disability, and "being a financial burden" could constitute "Lebensunwerte Leben" (Life Unworthy of Life) in U.S. Government end of life planning document

"The Death Book for Veterans: Ex-soldiers don't need to be told they're a burden to society" by Jim Towey in today's (August 18) Wall Street Journal says,

Last year, bureaucrats at the VA's National Center for Ethics in Health Care advocated a 52-page end-of-life planning document, "Your Life, Your Choices." It was first published in 1997 and later promoted as the VA's preferred living will throughout its vast network of hospitals and nursing homes. After the Bush White House took a look at how this document was treating complex health and moral issues, the VA suspended its use. Unfortunately, under President Obama, the VA has now resuscitated "Your Life, Your Choices."

We downloaded this document directly from the Veterans Administration, and the content suggests that both family finances and depression--a non-terminal illness--could constitute Lebensunwerte Leben, or "life unworthy of life." Smoke is generally indicative of fire and, although HR 3200 says nothing about mandatory end of life planning, euthanasia, or anything else similar to Germany's Aktion T4 program--the euthanasia program that served as a precedent for the Holocaust--we have shown (http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=16320) that there is indeed fire to go with the smoke. "Your Life, Your Choices" is simply more evidence, and it even suggests that war veterans with depression consider themselves a burden on the society that sent them to war.

[the long march]

Yeah I agree

[the long march]

you have not been in an end of life position then. Fact is if you want NO Care there is no guarantee that some doctor will decide that they want to put you on a medication to keep you going ( happened to my aunt until we pulled out the paper work to make them back off). There are plenty of cases that hit the courts where hospitals want to pull the plug on someone and the docs are sued. Jehova’s Witnesses ( with whom I have nothing in common) and Seventh Day Adventists ( as well as Christian Scientists) fight in court frequently to practise their religious point of view.

I read the whole booklet. These are common questions that one would like families to discuss and know something about. It isn’t a “survey” You obviously have never been a care giver for one at the end of life ( regardless of age). I find that most people do not discuss death and dying with anyone, least of all those who will be taking care of them. If you do not have your wishes written down ( regardless of what they are) you will indeed be at the mercy of someone else.

[the long march]

The advanced health care directive ( at least in California) appoints a person who has power of attorney in matters regard health care decisions. It also has areas that you can explain what (generally) you want or do not want. You are correct having a designated person with the legal authority is the best way to go to insure you get the kind of care you desire ( regardless of what that is)

[the long march]

I do not disagree with you as to where the decision should be made. Read the booklet in it’s entirity. this is an effort by those who deal with the dying to address the issues of what they want when they are still in a functioning and coherent state. If someone responds that they are confused all the time several things happen ( at least in the VA here in northern california) first the veteran is reevaluated for medications to see if there is some confusion being caused by mixed meds or dosage issues. Second the vet is scheduled for another appointment with the doc

This booklet is a starting point for family discussions. Your own family physician has a similar one that will be given to you or your care giver as you get nearer to making decisions.

[the long march]

Wills have nothing to do with advanced health care directives. That truly is mixing apples and oranges. Living wills while you might think them nice are frequently over looked or not available for evaluation. The best thing to do is have an advanced health care directive in place that specifies treatment and NAMES aperson to have power of attorney for helth decisions

The booklet by the VA is broad based in its questioning for several reasons. The answers to many of those questions can lead the nurse practioner and doctor to diagnose PTSD, clinical depression, and other severe changes in patient outlook. Fact is that a lot of our older vets are depressed and do not feel that much in life is worth living for. The goal is to find a way to imprpove their conditions and support them so that things have meaning again

[the long march]

I do not disagree with you. I only pointed out that the VA has a tool that is useful. It is not mandatory. It is no different than the questionairres that doctors offices give to families.

I am not in favor of any government involvment in health care and you will never find a place where I have said that I am.

[the long march]

That is part of the problem overall. Families will not discuss what they want in the way of care. If you want all measures to be used no matter what -— somewhere you need to write that down and appoint someone to make sure it happens

Life is God given and so is the passing from this veil of tears. Our time is not God’s time but the type of care you receive can be what you want or not.

[the long march]

You are very lucky. That is not always the case. It is not a scare tactic tp say that a doctor can go to court and get authority to provide or remove a treatment if they so desire ( the cases are all over the news when it happens——people who want to refuse treatments and aren’t allowed to and people who want life saving measures that they can’t get). No where in my post did you ever see anything that said I wanted the government to make these decisions. All I said was it is important for people to protect themselves.

[the long march]

I agree the VA pamphlet is not unlike the ones you get at any gerontolgists office

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[the long march]

these are questions that help the families, nurses, and docs evaluate the vets. You may not like some of the questions but they are legit. This booklet is NOT a health care directive. It is a series of questions asked of the vet ( or the patient) to get a sense of what they want.

I will give you an example of a case I know of. Elderly man terminally ill, family has power of attorney. The man had made it clear he wanted no extraordinary measures just palliative care. The man developed an appendicitis. The family because they had never discussed such a situation had no clue as to what to do so they denied surgery to remove the infected organ and the man died one of the most agnozing deaths one can die ( appendix rupture followed by an onset of gangrene ——long painful and unnecessary).

Whether you realize it our not the VA has one of the best hospice programs in the world. They deal not just with “young” returning soldiers. Many of the patients in the VA system are WWII era vets and Korean War vets. Because the VA provides primary as well as specialty care for these are finest of course they would deal with these types of issues

[FourPeas]

The part of your post I was objection to was your statment that:

If you do not have one in place the doctors will do what they want.

I rather doubt I was lucky. Beside my two experiences, I have family members with similar ones. Yes, there are some doctors who will push their authority, but it's rare despite the sensational cases that hit the news. To me, your post made doctors sound much like Obama did when he talked about unnecessary tonsillectomies. Doctors, being human and all, have their own strengths and weaknesses, but I don't believe as a group they all want to play God.

And, yes, a living will and care directives are a good idea, but if someone doesn't have on it doesn't mean they doctors will take carte blanche.

[the long march]

Look NOWHERE did I say I wanted the lunatic changes to health care being advocated by congress. All I said was that this booklet was NOT a directive it is a pamphlet designed to get families and people in the VA system to discuss and think about what they want.

I do not want the government involved in health care. And frankly as good as some of the care at the VA is it is still driven by “the numbers” that the bean counters come up with. It is not patient driven. That said I believe our vets deserve any health care they want -— yes they have already paid for it

[the long march]

Not even. NOWHERE will you find me saying that I support government involvment in health care -—It is easy and cheap to assume that everyone who doesn’t agree with you must be from the other side. Problem is that suggests that we iof the conservative ilk all think a like and we do not

[4woodenboats]

Living wills while you might think them nice are frequently over looked or not available for evaluation. The best thing to do is have an advanced health care directive in place that specifies treatment and NAMES aperson to have power of attorney for helth decisions

Apparently you've never seen a living will. You are making so many erroneous claims I don't know where to start, so I won't.

[the long march]

I agree with you -— but notice that the VA is starting to shift the costs back to the vet (For the record I hate that.)

I have never said that I supported anything in the present approach to health care “reform” moreover I have always said the vets deserve the best possible health care

[the long march]

No t necessarily.

[the long march]

And yet wasn’t it in Illinois that the doctors and the state filed charges against a set of parents for not having their minor child submit to another round of cancer treatments? Sure they follow what the family wants.

[the long march]

GET IT CLEAR I NEVER ADVOCATED FOR ANYTHING ON THE LEGISLATIVE TABLE.

[the long march]

You obviously have not watched or paid attention. Hmmm any cases come to mind where someone refuses chemo therapy and the parents are arrested and the child is forced? I guess you don’t read the news much. How about blood transfusions, appendectomies, and other procedures that parents of children who happen to be Christian Scientist or Jehova’s Witnesses?