Posted on 07/13/2009 12:04:33 PM PDT by Red Steel
NEW YORK (AP) — When it comes to dealing with gay personnel in the ranks, the contrasts are stark among some of the world’s proudest, toughest militaries — and these differing approaches are invoked by both sides as Americans renew debate over the Pentagon’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.
In the United States, more than 12,000 service members have been dismissed since 1994 because it became known they were gay. Current targets for discharge include a West Point graduate and Iraq war veteran, Army National Guard Lt. Dan Choi.
In Britain, on the other hand, uniformed gay and lesbian service members marched in the annual Pride London parade July 4. Gay Australian soldiers and sailors had their own float in Sydney’s Gay Mardi Gras parade. In Israel, the army magazine earlier this year featured two male soldiers on the cover, hugging one another.
America’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy — which prohibits gays from serving openly — is the target of intensifying opposition, and President Barack Obama says he favors lifting the ban. But he wants to win over skeptics in Congress and the Pentagon, and a fierce debate lies ahead that will inevitably touch on the experiences of allied nations that have no bans.
U.S. Rep. Patrick Murphy, D-Pa., the first war veteran elected to Congress, has just launched a campaign for a bill to repeal “don’t ask.” He observed British troops in operating smoothly with a serve-openly policy and bristles at the contention that American forces would suffer morale and recruiting problems if they followed suit.
“I take it as a personal affront to our warriors,” he said. “To say that other countries’ soldiers are professional enough to handle this and American soldiers aren’t is really a slap in the face.”
(Excerpt) Read more at gazette.com ...
Read the article. I say gays should serve, but with disciplinary measures if they are accused (with witnesses)of coming on to another service person. It’s all about a sense of control. Society in general doesn’t want to hear about control, especially in the area of sex. If another soldier is so perturbed by another soldier being gay (I am saying not as result that he was propositioned)— but just because he knows his comrade is gay—I say get over it. Our rationale for allowing gays in the military should not be that other nations allow it, but because we think it’s a just thing. Now that women are in the military, the chances of interaction between men and women servicepersons is far higher than it was in the past. A pregnant female active duty servicewoman is far more detrimental to the military than two homosexuals having a fling.
That’s quite funny!
It seems that the country that considers itself a light and a bastion of morality to others should be the one to exclude gays in the military just on grounds of decency and common sense.
I disagree. There is not a single credible scientist or scientific study that says gays are born with their same-sex attraction. And since the ex-gay population is growing, perhaps it would be best to weigh all available evidence before starting yet another social experiment.
“I take it as a personal affront to our warriors,” he said. “To say that other countries’ soldiers are professional enough to handle this and American soldiers aren’t is really a slap in the face.”
Oh yeah, generic lib congressleach? Really? The same military you guys say are made up of people who have no choice but to be there because they are stupid, poor or both?
Really, nutbag liberal sleaze? The same people you come screaming after for all these supposed rapes that aren’t rapes but “someone” regrets what they did the night before?
I mean, c’mon senator scumbag, these are the men and women that are shacking up and you’re shocked the military has such high pregnancy rates in deployed positions and on ships.
Opening this door up is going to make it even worse than you have been saying it is. It’s the only thing keeping a lid on how even more promiscuous the gays themselves want to normally be.
1. Walking blood supply.
2. 1st aid on the battlefield
3. blood-borne pathogens
4. unbelievable promiscuity
5. quick infectiousness of HIV exposed
Would you want your kid to be getting a blood transfusion from his “flamboyant” platoon mate? Moreover, would HE prefer it or not prefer it?
When some of those “other nations” demonstrate they can kick our butts, then we should listen to them. Until then, we’ll lead and they can be the REMFs on the world stage.
More so than, say, HIV, TB and AIDS which are rampant in the male homosexual community, not to mention a whole host of other serious STDs? Don't forget the problems with blood supply and contamination of other members in a combat environment.
Let's face facts; homosexuality is an aberration and a mental illness with those suffering from it much more likely to have other serious mental afflictions and much more likely to succumb to substance abuse.
The US Armed Forces are not a social experiment. I think you can envision that 2 people who are sexually attracted tto each other may lose focus of the mission when the SHTF.
Pushing this stupid idea is something that the Libertarian party and Mitt Romney both have as goals, opening the military fully to homosexuals and their open behaviors.
Thats it!
Just like the economy/trade and commerce..... Lets go to the islamic third world for advice!
Then after its done, apologize to the boys for getting them into such a messy situation...
Now it all makes sense!
America the un-Beautiful
BTW, how would you propose to preserve some bit of privacy for military members living in communal conditions? Please reconcile with current polices segregating male and female quarters, showers, etc. Also, note the article provides no information concerning maintenance of discipline. Either the example countries noted don't have particularly "expeditionary" armed forces (i.e. they don't deploy and live in tents/barracks/ships to the extent we do), they accept exposing their soldiers to very uncomfortable or worse conditions or they have some pretty strict polices to keep order.
I'd bet a pile of money that there have been serious but unpublicized problems. The only question is to what extent. Imagine how much worse the heterosexual discipline troubles you allude to would be without the ability to readily segregate men and women.
The current "don't ask/don't tell" policy works. It provides a ceiling to limit disruptive behavior while allowing homosexuals to serve.
Opinion on gays in military should be Iran and Saudia Arabia!
Thanks. After I posted, I thought "has Two Privates" might have been even more appropriate.
Actually I agree with you that the science is not out on the causes of homosexuality. As far as the ex-gay population growing, I think that’s wishful thinking on the part of some Evangelical Christians who run ex-gay ministries. I believe that there are people who once lived in the gay world (for whatever reason) and because of some religious change of heart they stopped their homosexual activity. I don’t think vast numbers have gone from gay to straight. One clue that homosexuality might not be genetic (although gay activists would swear on their momma’s bloomers that it is) is that many are so eager to promote “the lifestyle” among youth—to experiment with their sexuality. If it’s genetic (and therefore fixed) why the need to experiment? I know a number of gay men that had been married (could function sexually with a woman) but still were attracted to men. They jumped ship—so it is psychological— but psychologically deeper set in some people than in others. That’s is where there the idea of reinforcement comes in.
The whole privacy issue is a big one. You’re right insofar as other countries not being involved in combat situations to the extent that we are. The idea of women in certain situations—on submarines for example, is disconcerting if the issue is privacy.
Number one, the worry about the diseases you mentioned would be nipped in the bud upon blood testing let’s say every six months or so. I am sure the military checks for these things when the recruit enlists. Not that a condom is 100% cure-all, but it will prevent a high degree of infection.
As far as substance abuse among the homosexual community. Yes, I agree with you to a degree, because it is a subculture that uplifts partying, clubbing and all that stuff. Alcohol abuse (esp) is quite high in the military among straights-—drugs, they just boot you out if they find out.....or maybe send you to rehab if Uncle Sam has invested a lot in the soldier.
The mental illness part is debatable. Now is their homosexuality in and of itself a mental illness (abnormal in the mathematical sense of the word yes, but not mentally ill in its common meaning) Do homosexuals suffer from a higher rate of other forms of mental illness than the population at large—ie schizophrenia, paranoia, OCD, manic depression etc-— from what I have seen yes, but a large part of that is due to other factors in their lives not directly due to their sexual attraction.
....and what do you know about the military?
Was never in it. Never claimed I was. But that doesn’t mean that a civilian is totally oblivious.
As far as the ex-gay population growing, I think that’s wishful thinking on the part of some Evangelical Christians who run ex-gay ministries.
I can understand that, but I'd say you're not that familiar with ex-gay organizations. Some are evangelical, some are Mormon, some are Jewish and some are secular.
I don’t think vast numbers have gone from gay to straight.
That depends on your definition of vast numbers. It's too bad we (the nation) can't discuss the issue without interference from the politics of homosexuality.
Dr. Robert Spitzer, who was a major player in getting homosexuality removed from the DSM as a mental disease, changed his mind and now believes homosexuals can change. That's a huge step back for the radicals pushing the homosexual agenda
Check my profile for more information (scroll down). You may find Factors Contributing to the Development of Their Homosexual Feelings an interesting read.
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