Bodies Found From Air France Plane Crash

SkyNews ^

[traumer]

Bodies from the Air France passenger plane that crashed in the Atlantic Ocean off Brazil have been found by search teams.

The news comes it was revealed the airliner sent out 24 automatic error messages in its final moments as its systems broke down one by one.

The head of the French agency probing the tragedy said signals from the jet before it disappeared showed its autopilot was not on.

Paul-Louis Arslanian said it was not clear if the autopilot had been switched off by the pilots or had stopped working because it received conflicting airspeed readings.

He said investigators were searching a zone of several hundred square miles in the Atlantic Ocean for the debris.

Plane manufacturer Airbus said an investigation found Air France Flight 447 had inconsistent readings from different instruments as it struggled in a massive thunderstorm.

The plane, with 228 people on board, disappeared early on Monday as it made its way from Rio de Janiero, heading to Paris.

The wreckage of the jet has not been found, despite days of intensive searching by air and sea.

[El Gato]

Oops, that got posted to the wrong thread. That’s what I get for reading two at the same time.

[oprahstheantichrist]

"It was Flight 77...."

Sorry to hear that, I had heard early on that those on 77 were all pretty much cremated. Guess not. We had a Freeper on that flight, you know. Barbara Olson posted here as "BKO," and many of the Founding Freepers were pretty screwed up over it. Pretty sure one of the other pilots was a Freeper also, but I can't remember.

"...and wonder how I would feel if suddenly ..."

Yep. Can't even imagine it. Yes I can, that's the problem. How about TWA 800 with the nose coming off and the rest of the jet continuing on?

Okay, we have to cut this out, it's getting too creepy....

[muawiyah]

Not just "threats" but the real thing. Years back in a discussion about bombs in the mail I found that it's a remarkably low occurrence ~ an average of 13 or so since the 1960s or thereabouts. Could be higher. Could be lower. I actually think the nuimber is larger but kept "secret".

BTW, they are usually all found before delivery.

Washington National at the US Air Terminal, in a busy week, could find that many in/near luggage. Yet, for months on end there'd be no discoveries, and no explosions.

A lot of it has to do with "fashion". Sometimes the mad bomber crowd goes wild for using the mail, and other times they like to sit their little explosive devices in public places. We had a guy a few years back was delivering small bombs to rural mailboxes ~ he was carving out a "Smiley Face" in a large area.

One bomb I encountered misfired ~ it was made out of shotgun shells and was being sent by one polygamous jack Mormon to another one who'd stolen one of his women.

Smart of the regular LDS stakes to keep those guys OUT!

I doubt there's anyone who's ever worked in management in the mail, express or baggage business who is unfamiliar with bombs ~ bombs ~ bombs exploding, bombs sitting there, bombs cooking off, bombs with bells, bombs with alarms, bombs with their wires disabled through mishandling (yes, even bombs get tossed around eh).

Airline people, even TSA, probably encounter them more often than other people.

[Mr Ramsbotham]

Sorry to hear that, I had heard early on that those on 77 were all pretty much cremated. Guess not.

I'm sure a good deal of them were, but there were plenty of body parts, and these were well-charred. Most, if not all, of the whole bodies were of people inside the building when the plane went through, and even these were burnt beyond recognition.

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

I think if muzzie terrorists were responsible they’d be crowing about it by now. Otherwise, what would be the point?

The myth that refuses to die.

Here's a list of confirmed, fatal commercial airline bombings for which no claim of responsibility was ever made:

• Air France Flight 406 (May 10, 1961)
  Crashed in Libya/78 killed

• Aden Airways (November 22, 1966)
  Crashed in Yemen/30 killed

• Philippine Air Lines (April 21, 1970)
  Crashed in Manila/36 killed

• China Airlines (November 21, 1971)
  Crashed off Penghu Island/25 killed

• Philippine Air Lines (April 21, 1973)
  Crashed near Patabangan, Philippines/33 killed

• Ethiopian Airlines (February 19, 1979)
  Crashed in Barentu, Ethiopia/5 killed

• Transportes Aereos del Caribe (December 21, 1980)
  Crashed in Rio Hacha, Colombia/70 killed

• Air India Flight (June 23, 1985)
  Crashed over the Atlantic/329 killed*
  * part of a coordinated attack; a second bomb detonated in the Tokyo airport, killing 2

• Air Lanka (May 3, 1986)
  Exploded on the runway in Colombo, Sri Lanka/21 killed

• Korean Air (November 29, 1987)
  Departed Abu Dhabi, UAE and vanished over the Andaman Sea/115 killed

• Philippine Air Lines (December 11, 1994)
  Detonated after leaving Narita, Japan (by way of Manila)/1 killed*
  *Dry run for Operation: Bojinka/Ramzi Yousef was proven to have planted the bomb

Those are just the successful bombings that authorities confirmed were caused by on-board bombs. There are many more that failed to cause fatalities or bring down the target (including three attempted attacks against Air France). There's also the 9/11 attacks, which weren't claimed until months later when the OBL tape was released; and the AA587 crash over Queens, which was claimed by al Qaeda in May, 2004 (two and a half years after the fact). Both incidents were also claimed by the Iraqi regime in December, 2001 (in the form of a poem by a regime mouthpiece, delivered in Saddam's presence).

The most alarming thing about this isn't all of the Freepers ruling out terrorism because no claim has been made at this point. It's the authorities who are saying it publicly. Do the men charged with investigating the possibility of terrorism have no knowledge of the history of terrorism against commercial airliners? About 60% of these attacks are claimed, the other 40% aren't. And of the 60% that are claimed, many (if not most) of those claims are false claims designed to throw off investigators (PanAm 103 was claimed by three groups, none of whom were involved in any way; Volga-AviaExpress 1303 and Siberia Airlines 1047 were claimed by nonexistent groups, etc.)

When you put this much stock in the claim of responsibility, you're giving the jihadists (or the narco terrorists, or the whatever separatists, etc.) a very powerful tool. And they will use it to their advantage.

[Monkey Face]

I’ve read all of his books I can fine. He’s excellent!

[Monkey Face]

Thanks for the link! I see there are a couple I haven’t read, as yet.... ;o]

[bustinchops]

That’s interesting, and I appreciate the information.

It seems to me though, that what you’re saying is that because the jihadists make these claims later or never, it somehow proves they did it. I’m not sure that’s a logical conclusion, although I’ll reserve judgment on the 11/12/94 Philippine Air Lines since I don’t know what the “proof” is.

The fact that the jihadists sometimes take credit long after the incident suggests they may be taking advantage of the circumstances, although they may well be responsible.

I also notice that the last incident on your list occurred in late 2001, which suggests that Bush’s efforts had an impact on their ability to operate. Since this event just occurred, it doesn’t fit the time frame presented by your list, nor does it disproportionately harm Americans or Israelis.

I do think some terrorist attacks and bombings are covered up, but I don’t think the list itself proves that those particular events were terrorist events. Further detail substantiated by professionals would be helpful in establishing the validity of the claim that THOSE events were jihadist/terrorist events.

[WhistlingPastTheGraveyard]

It seems to me though, that what you’re saying is that because the jihadists make these claims later or never, it somehow proves they did it.

Not at all. I'm saying the history should be sufficient cause to keep an open mind until we know more.

I also notice that the last incident on your list occurred in late 2001, which suggests that Bush’s efforts had an impact on their ability to operate.

Absolutely. But Bush is gone now. If they have managed to bring down a plane for the first time in seven years (in this hemisphere), it could be a new method that they plan to use on a bigger scale. Something along those lines could explain why they would keep quiet about it at this stage. It might also explain why officials would be keeping what they know very close to the vest (not all cover-ups are nefarious).

Since this event just occurred, it doesn’t fit the time frame presented by your list, nor does it disproportionately harm Americans or Israelis.

There is no time frame. They've attempted several airline attacks since 9/11 (Richard Reid, Mombasa 2002, the airline terror plot of August 2006), they've just been thwarted.

And there have been many, many attacks by jihadists and other terror groups that have not disproportionately harmed Israelis or Americans. Just look at the number of attacks in the Philippines, in India, the Bali bombings, the London attacks, the Casablanca attacks, etc., etc...

I don’t think the list itself proves that those particular events were terrorist events.

The list isn't intended to prove another other airline disasters were terrorist attacks. It's meant only to show that there's a history of bombings where no credit was claimed, either right away or at all.

[bustinchops]

Thanks.

I’ll keep an open mind.

If this was a terrorist event, it seems to me that the jihadists would rather have exploded the plane over land where the falling debris could do even more damage rather than waiting until they were well out over water.

The heavy storm and series of electrical failures sent through the automated system do make this event seem weather and/or mechanical related.

[LikeLight]

17 bodies now recovered by French and Brazilian ships - - - more in the water...

[bustinchops]

Fox News is reporting that the speed sensors may have malfunctioned. This was also discussed yesterday and apparently Airbus is recalling some or all of them. It’s being reported that 24 electronic messages emanating from the aircraft’s automated system indicate airspeed problems.

[Monterrosa-24]

“...A lot of it has to do with “fashion”. Sometimes the mad bomber crowd goes wild for using the mail, and other times they like to sit their little explosive devices in public places...”

Thanks for the info.

[Palladin]

This thread is not for the fainthearted!