Posted on 04/22/2009 7:12:17 AM PDT by AmericanHunter
When Texas Gov. Rick Perry floated the idea of secession if the federal government continues to pursue an aggressive tax-and-spend policy, the mainstream media, as well as the political establishment, cringed.
MSNBC’s Chris Matthews called talk of secession “whack-job stuff,” calling Mr. Perry a “bozo” and telling the Texas governor, “You don’t have a choice buddy.” Mr. Matthews’ colleague, Rachael Maddow, said Mr. Perry was “flirting to the point of adultery” by talking about secession, while commentator Thomas Frank reinforced the disconnect between the media and many Americans.
“What you’re seeing … what is one of the surprising things about these tea parties … surprising to people like you and me, is how mainstream extremism is in the Republican Party and the conservative movement,” Mr. Frank, author of Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule, told Ms. Maddow.
But is the idea of secession a foreign concept to the American experience? Is talk of secession automatically treasonous? Is any secessionist movement doomed to be defined by the Civil War and exiled to the political wilderness?
“I think the biggest surprise to me was the outrage expressed by an individual who even thinks ... along these lines,” U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, said yesterday on CNN’s American Morning.
“Because I heard people say, well, ‘this was treason,’ they say, and ‘this was un-American.’ But don’t they remember how we came in to our being? We used secession. We seceded from England. So it’s a very good principle. It’s a principle of a free society. It’s a shame we don’t have it anymore.”
Dr. Paul, who ran a hard fought grassroots campaign for the Republican nomination in 2008, argued the principle of secession is one that protects the union rather than threatens it.
“I argue that if you have the principle of secession, our federal government wouldn’t be as intrusive into state affairs. And to me, that would be very good,” Dr. Paul said. “We as a nation have endorsed secession all along. I mean, think of all the secession of the countries and the Republicans from the Soviet system. We were delighted. We love it. And yet we get hysterical over this.”
Critics of the coverage of the secession comment argue the media is trying to paint the Republican Party as extreme. They say Mr. Perry was not advocating secession, but rather saying the federal government could cause its resurrection.
“We got a great union. There’s absolutely no reason to dissolve it. But if Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people, you know, who knows what might come out of that?” Mr. Perry asked.
While the notion of secession was floated by Mr. Perry, he was not expressly advocating Texas leave the Union. Rather, the Texas governor used the idea in a manner Dr. Paul believes is historically accurate — to send a warning shot across the bow of a federal government that is encroaching on state’s rights and individual liberties.
Last week’s tea parties exposed a major rift in the country, and some are concerned the Obama administration does not understand the degree of dissent that is fomenting outside the Beltway. And despite panning by the political establishment, the majority of the nation viewed tea party dissent in a favorable light.
Fifty-one percent of Americans had a favorable view of the nationwide rallies, while 32 percent responded their view was very favorable, according to a poll released by Rasmussen Reports. A third of the nation had an unfavorable view with 15 percent unsure.
But among the nation’s “Political Class,” Rasmussen found just 13 percent held a favorable assessment and zero percent held a very favorable view of the nationwide protest. This disconnect, according to Dr. Paul, is a major part of the problem.
“People are angry. And if we don’t sense that, we don’t know it’s actually what’s going on there,” the Texas congressman said. Dr. Paul said the worst is yet to come because secession will achieve a greater legitimacy as the country struggles.
“When the dollar collapses and the federal government can’t fulfill any of its promises, what if they send you dollars and they don’t work,” Dr. Paul said. “People are just going to — they’re not going to have a violent cessation. They’re just going to ignore the federal government because they will be inept.”
NOPE, and I dare anyone to try to force a state that actually dips it’s toes into the water and “Seceedes”, if that state doesn’t send an army against it’s neighbors or agressively goes after the feds to FORCE their fellow “Americans” to join back into Union..I dare them.
I DARE ANYONE TO TRY TO FORCE A “Seceeded” (Sovereign) STATE to REJOIN “Union” if that State hasn’t sent an Army against it’s neigbors, nor agressively against the FEDS, I DARE them!..
Not only that, but I hope you all that are saying this illigal are actually ready to back up your rhetoric by also publically stating that you believe the Federal Government should be able to tell states..(and then by proxy the people) what to do, not the other way around.
I believe that the people created the states, and the states created the Federal Government, They’re not OUR bosses, WE are theirs!
No doubt who I would side with, but, if I were to place bets, the 1.5 million troops would hold a decided advantage—it ain’t the like the revolutionary war where both sides had similar weapons. The troops have RPGs, 50 caliber machine guns, tanks, choppers with major armaments, etc, while the civilians have semi-automatic rifles and handguns. I can’t imagine soldiers would follow the Hussein in power for long since most of them hate his mangy hide, especially when asked to kill fellow americans.
Tell that to the my ancestors when they seceded from Great Britain.
Tell that to the framers when 9 states seceded from 13 without consent.
Tell that to 9 million Americans that met in convention and seceded in 1861.
Tell that to 300,000,000 million Americans who never delegated their sovereignty away.
Especially when we’re not the agressors (we are on God’s side)!
Exactly, I just want to be left alone and allowed my personal freedom and a reasonable degree of taxation for what is of value to every American—defense of the nation, roads and necessary infrastructure. I am damned tired of paying my share and 10 other peoples’ share. I receive no more benefits, in fact, I receive fewer benefits by far than people who make no contribution. My retirement 403b is now worth 50% of what it was less than a year ago, my pay was cut 2%, and the greedy politicians in DC have lost nothing, in fact, they want more taxes from people suffering losses. This is an outrage and the corrupt s.o.b.s are spending my children’s future. I really think they are intentionally attempting to destroy the economy, allow chaos to ensue, then martial law to restore order with a new model of tyranny dreamed up by Hussein and his teleprompters.
..bud I am about at the point where I say “I declare independence” from the Federal Government becuase they have vioated their oaths, and do not respect my constitutional rights, as I am a free human being, Under God, and I willingly give (some freedom) to live under Government, if they fail to uphold this protection, or worse yet oppress me, then I am under NO obligation to support or obey their rule!!..how does that sound?
THEY’RE (ALmost) illigitmate..!
Try out this.....
IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.
Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.
So, noob (troll).......
IBTZ
“Some” are wrong.
Nice post.
Krissy "the teenage girl" Matthews who gets a "tingle all the way up his leg" (a disgusting image I could have lived all the rest of my life without him planting THAT in my head) has both the intelligence and credibility of bellybutton lint.
Unfortunately, Krissy is such an airhead that he doesn't seem to realize that Texas, along with any/all of the other 49 states DO have a choice. It was Krissy's airheadedness that got him thrown off the cheerleading squad when he was in high school. After that, he tried out for the girls dance team, but he sucked at that too and, well, things just went downhill after that. That's how he got to be a liberal airhead on TV pretending to be a "real" journalist.
I sincerely hope not - we have much better choices available to us in Texas than Jorge. His last 4 years in the WH proved he is not a conservative and he is not interested in being much of a leader or preserving the sovereignty of any nation he controls. Notice his steadfast unwillingness to enact any controls ofver the illegal invasion from the south which was within his power to do.
You can have Jorge, I'll pass.
Idealogically, you make a good argument, However, ideology aside, let's look at reality, because that is where we have to live. The "system" has been corrupted by greedy, self-serving politicians in Washington who are are about as removed from reality as they could be if they were somehow transported to the Land of Oz. Additionally, I think you must have slept through the last 100+ years of the conservative movement - conservatives are milquetoast types who squeak out their objections to the abuses of the left, but are so accustomed to being the liberals' doormats that, as a political party, we are benign at best. So, with nary a backbone among the bunch of them (the elected "conservatives"), the "conservative argument" is as effective as pi__ing into the wind.
Secession was considered by the Founders as a last ditch act of the states to counterbalance the abuses and the power of a strong central government. We have reached that point where the members of that strong central government need to be awakened by a 2X4 being smacked against their foreheads. Secession by one or more of the states is the 2X4. If we all join hands and sing a few choruses of Kumbaya while waiting for "the system" to work, we could all be slaves or imprisoned in "re-education camps". So, for many of us, the best way to salvage America is to secede before things reach a point that most of us find ourselves in the middle of an armed insurrection.
Secession, at least, is the more peaceful of the two choices.
Actually during the revolutionary war the patriots were quite out gunned by the British not only did the British have better weapons, they were also trained professional soldiers fighting businessmen and farmers, the Americans just started using Guerrilla tactics... Fighting from houses, woods, obstructions etc. to blunt the power of the British weapons.
Ok, I'm willing to step up to the plate and become the new Texas President... but I'll be moving the Capital to Grand Prairie. ;-)
Ah, 1.5 million troops couldn't occupy Arkansas let alone the ENTIRE SOUTH. Try 10.5 Million at a minimum. A state like Arkansas could generate a 500,000 man militia in about a week.
I'm guessing more like about 4 hours.
Just beacuse a man has a weapon and ammo doesn't make him effective. I does take a little time to transport semi-train a militia. 4 hours no. But the Feds have the same problem only worse because 50% of the standing army is overseas!
Chris Matthews is a living reminder that the enemy of a free people often appear as talking heads for a tyrannical government. This is nothing new—the tactic has been used in China, Germany, and Vietnam. The enemy within has tentacles that span the field of command and control.
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