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The BIG question lately - CAN STATES SECEDE?
discussion

Posted on 04/17/2009 10:17:36 AM PDT by RED SOUTH

Article VII sets out the provision for original ratification, and that Article IV empowers Congress to admit new States, but that no provision of the Constitution authorizes a state to leave the Union or bars it from doing so. The constitution does not say anything about states leaving.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: cwii; statesrights; texas
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To: Non-Sequitur

Why would they have agreed to the ratification if their provisions wouldn’t matter? Or do they only not matter now?


121 posted on 04/17/2009 11:30:33 AM PDT by Feline_AIDS (Because canine AIDS ain't funny.)
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To: ansel12

That’s exactly what I’m saying. An angry mob is not going to be as effective as the trained professionals that are protecting you right now. The politicians may be morons, but the Border Patrol agents and active duty service personnel are doing a better job than a group of well meaning but untrained citizens.


122 posted on 04/17/2009 11:31:19 AM PDT by armymarinedad (Support, v., To take the side of; to uphold or help.)
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To: meyer

I left and came back in reaction to the then current political situation. I’d love to see every Conservative Republican re-register as an independent, just so the party could see how much displeasure there is out here in fly over country.

If the party only had 10% of the registered voters, it would shake it up dramatically. People could always re-register as a Republican before the primaries.

Right now, we’re being jobbed by the party leadership.


123 posted on 04/17/2009 11:32:15 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Pres__ent Obama's own grandmother says he was born in Kenya. She was there.)
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To: armymarinedad
Border Patrol??? You don't live in Texas do you?

Protecting our border with Mexico is a joke.

124 posted on 04/17/2009 11:33:51 AM PDT by catfish1957 (Hey algore...You'll have to pry the steering wheel of my 317 HP V8 truck from my cold dead hands)
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To: Feline_AIDS
Why would they have agreed to the ratification if their provisions wouldn’t matter? Or do they only not matter now?

If you read the ratification documents many of them had conditions or assumptions in them. But one common feature that each and every one had was wording to the effect that they assented to and ratified the Constitution as passed out of convention on September 17, 1787, and that they agreed to abide by its provisions. If the power to secede unilaterally isn't in it then their assumptions are meaningless.

125 posted on 04/17/2009 11:34:34 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: RED SOUTH

“The BIG question lately - CAN STATES SECEDE?”

they certainly can’t ‘succeed’ under the current state of things.


126 posted on 04/17/2009 11:34:35 AM PDT by kpp_kpp
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To: IDRATHERNOT
Why secede? Just exert state sovereignty on a range of issues such as regulations, transportation, trade and taxes.

In what way?

127 posted on 04/17/2009 11:35:08 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: KeyesPlease

There is a lot of displeasure with the Republican Party, in the minds of it’s members. On that you and I can agree, and admit that we are certainly representative of the body as a whole. We are angry at the failure of leadership, and adherence to Conservative policies.

I can’t fault you for your perception. You’re right on target there. We have to find creative ways to change the party and the nation, in a constructive, not destructive manner.


128 posted on 04/17/2009 11:35:33 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Pres__ent Obama's own grandmother says he was born in Kenya. She was there.)
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To: wastoute
"Actually in all practicality the states may soon discover what the Federal Gummint already has. You can do anything you can get away with."

My thoughts exactly. It's a distinction the Romans recognized in formulating the concepts of De Jure and De Facto.

129 posted on 04/17/2009 11:35:47 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Abundy
The point of no return has been reached. ACORN got several billion in bailout $ and the 2010 census will be rigged.

The GOP had their chance to legislate proper voter ID and did not. That is what sealed our fate.

130 posted on 04/17/2009 11:36:33 AM PDT by MattinNJ (Sanford/Palin in 2012)
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To: DoughtyOne

there are many fine people in california but i’m all for them seceeding and taking their problems with them.


131 posted on 04/17/2009 11:38:16 AM PDT by wiggen
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To: DoughtyOne

I don’t disagree with your points, I just don’t believe that we can take the country back.

and the socialists know that if the producers(people actually paying taxes) leave the union, what is left will implode since they will be left with a population of unemployed people who think they are entitled to gov money and professional politicians.


132 posted on 04/17/2009 11:39:38 AM PDT by Abundy
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To: RED SOUTH
Any question answered by a war is subject to being answered differently by another war, forever and always.

I don't see secession happening. I don't think we're in that severe a situation yet. The last time it was tried, at any given time 1/3 of the soldiers fighting for the South didn't even have shoes. Now, most of the nation's important industry is in the South. If a Round 2 ever did come, it would end quite differently than Round 1 did.
133 posted on 04/17/2009 11:42:53 AM PDT by JamesP81 (When Obama signed an order providing tax dollars to murder children, he stopped being my president)
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To: wiggen

Look, a lot of people make that comment. So let’s add New York too. And then lets add any other liberal bastion we can think of.

Okay great. You’ve just delivered the wealth of the United States into leftist hands.

California alone is the 7th largest economy in the entire world. I’m sure New York has an amazing economy too.

Why would you want to surrender so much to so few idiots?

I know you’re going to think this is crazy, but what would be the best thing for our nation, abandoning California and New York, or flooding those two states with white middle class conservatives who would turn them around?

The major failure in California, was when a major portion of the 70% of white middle class people decided to leave the state. At 70%, these people could have easily turned things around. Instead they left. And now look at the mess.


134 posted on 04/17/2009 11:43:54 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Pres__ent Obama's own grandmother says he was born in Kenya. She was there.)
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To: Big_Monkey
Amen. It allows the entire conservative movement to be painted as whack-jobs and gives comic fodder to every late-night comedian and snarky faux news show.

We don't need to give the leftist anymore clubs to beat us with.

Here's a clue card. ANYTHING you do is going to be painted as politically incorrect by the communists. So just drive on with the discussions and to hell with their opinions.

135 posted on 04/17/2009 11:43:59 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (01-20-2009 : The end of the PAX AMERICANA.)
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To: Big_Monkey
Of course, it's the same middle third of America that the left and the right needs to WIN ELECTIONS

Are you talking the spineless cowards that elected Obama and the dems? I tell you truthfully, sir, that I am immensely pleased by one thing about the Nov 2008 election. The self-absorbed b*stards who voted in this abomination shall now pay dearly for their short sightedness.

The Middle, along with the Left, can go piss up a flaming rope. They've made their choice and now, by God, they are going to live with it.
136 posted on 04/17/2009 11:46:46 AM PDT by JamesP81 (When Obama signed an order providing tax dollars to murder children, he stopped being my president)
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To: Abundy
Because they would not survive and we could then reclaim them. and since we cannot survive in the communist spiral we have been sucked into by staying in it, we need to survive some other way

Agreed. You abandon the hell-holes, and sweep up the pieces after they implode of their own accord.
137 posted on 04/17/2009 11:48:13 AM PDT by JamesP81 (When Obama signed an order providing tax dollars to murder children, he stopped being my president)
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To: Non-Sequitur

bttt


138 posted on 04/17/2009 11:48:27 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (01-20-2009 : The end of the PAX AMERICANA.)
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To: Abundy

Lets take California as an example. It’s a leftist bastion today because...?

Is it leftist because leftists are so clever and Conservatives are mentally challenged? NO.

It’s is leftist because the 70% middle-class white became 43% middle-class whites. Many Californians moved to Arizona, Nevada, Oregon... and left the state to the leftists.

Now look at the mess.

If the 70? of the middle-class whites had stayed and changed the state leadership, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

We don’t need to fix the states that are good. We need to flood the states that are bad, and take them back.

I know that sounds crazy, but the more you consider this concept, the more it’s obvious that it is true.

How long would it take to turn W., D.C. into a model district? It wouldn’t take ten years if a concerted effort was launched to turn things around there.

We can do this. And I think it’s a lot more productive.


139 posted on 04/17/2009 11:49:33 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Pres__ent Obama's own grandmother says he was born in Kenya. She was there.)
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To: DoughtyOne
Texas will merely be a nation the size of France, or Germany. It wouldn’t wield global power.

Funny ... they used to be world powers. The problem is that both of them started wars and LOST. Texas ... no need to start a war, just defend itself.

140 posted on 04/17/2009 11:52:43 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (01-20-2009 : The end of the PAX AMERICANA.)
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