Posted on 02/18/2009 9:17:16 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
Revelation, Speculation, and Science
by Dr. Greg Bahnsen
February 18, 2009
It is one of those embarrassing historical ironies that modern science could not have arisen except in the atmosphere of a Christian world-and-life view. Nevertheless, the scientific community today persists in playing the prodigal by assuming an antagonistic stance against the Christianity of divine revelation. Hypnotized by Darwin’s evolutionary scheme and enchanted with the products of scientific technology, modern man has granted science a secularized godship and bows before it in fetish idolatry.
The pitting of science against revelation is certainly odd. For, a certain state of affairs is needed for the scientific endeavor to be meaningful or fruitful. The scientist must believe that the state of affairs is conducive to science, or he would not venture into the scientific enterprise. He must believe that there is a world of things and processes that can be known and that he himself sustains a relationship to this world that allows him to know these objects and events. But then, what reason can the scientist give for his belief that the state of affairs is actually conducive to science? Why is the world such as it is and not otherwise?
The Predicament for Science...
(Excerpt) Read more at answersingenesis.org ...
As one of the Church Fathers put it:
Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for a non-believer to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn."
--St. Augustine
Mineralization doesn’t take millions or even thousands of years. The problem I pose is not the speed of mineralization but the selectivity.
Why are all fossils dates as old by radiometric dating, and believed to be old by evolutionary biologists, mineralized?
But bones of recent mammals are still bones. We even have mammoth DNA.
And yes, I’m quite aware of the so-called red meat found in dino bones. It’s red minerals. If it were real, creation scientists would be all over it, because plenty of dino bones are in private hands. If they had dino DNA, all you’d have to do is crack open a few on live TV and prove it to the world.
Alas, the collagen found in the dino bones is almost certainly bacterial.
If you read “ City of God Against the Pagans,” you will learn that Augustine included old-earth compromisers in that discription. He was himself a YEC, and despised old-earthers as being corrupted by “paganism.”
Interesting that even though Augustine and Aquinas did not have the benefit of recent scientific findings, they anticipated them and anticipated the need for people of faith to adjust to reality.
Aquinas in particular said there are different ways of understanding the Bible, and it is foolish and counterproductive to insist on an interpretation that is contrary to fact.
Thanks, I like that quote. It can never be repeated enough on threads like these.
Excellent point. If Augustine had access to the knowledge that we have today, he would most definitely NOT be a Young Earth Creationist. Not only that, he would chew them up one side and down the other for their misleading tactics and their denial of what God has revealed to us in his creation.
Naturalistic science will usually retort that examination of present materials and processes enables us to extrapolate backwards so as to determine what must have occurred. But here again, forsaking his own basic methods, the scientist is speculating (not observing) on the course of historical development; he assumes (but cannot show experimentally) that not only is nature uniform now but always has been, that processes seen today have always worked as they do now.
Yet, the same site has several articles and videos that measure the current rate of decay in the earth's magnetic field and extapolate it backwards to what it would have been 6,000 years ago.
We have been able to measure the strength of the magnetic field for over a century, and not surprisingly, the earth’s magnetic field is indeed decaying. Every century, the magnetic field decays by about 5 percent. Since the earth’s magnetic field gets weaker as time moves forward, it must have been considerably stronger in the past. Approximately 6,000 years ago, the magnetic field would have been quite a lot stronger, but still perfectly suitable for life.
However, if the earth were many millions of years old, then the geomagnetic field would have been so strong in that alleged distant past, that life would not have been possible.
Answers in Genesis is a self-conflicting website, yet everything is presented, literally, as God-given truth. Go figure.
They also promote the RATE Project which published radiometric dating results ranging from a few thousand to 500 million years. Guess which results aren’t mentioned in their general articles.
If you dig into the complete published document, the old dates are explained away by assuming a short period of miraculously rapid radioactive decay. In other words, modify physical constants as needed to fit the predetermined age.
I can live with people who believe in miracles, but I have problems with people who claim to be scientific until it is inconvenient.
This Bahnsen dude died 13 years ago.
Maybe he’d have changed his mind with all the scientific advances since his death, like the Tiktaalik prediction and discovery.
Yes, I'm familiar with the RATE project. The sad thing is how the Young Earth Creationists deceive by leaving out inconvenient facts and creating fantastic Rube Goldberg scenarios to fit the facts with a Dark Ages interpretation of the BibleWhen honest people point out the deceptions, the ignorance, and the logical fallacies, they are met with derision.
See if you can spot the kiss-up.
...and has no idea how to spell religion.You'd think these 14 year olds would figure out too many people are onto them by now.
No, you’re just full of projections.
they keep educated people from coming to know Christ. Please don’t judge all Christians by what you read in posts like this.
Soooo explain how people are brought to Christ by defending the godless liberal ACLU, and NEA, and DEMANDING children be taught God “has no place in science class” (among just about everywhere and anywhere else) while denying His creation...
but give me 3 minutes so I can pop some popcorn.
Excellent point. If Augustine had access to the knowledge that we have today, he would most definitely NOT be a Young Earth Creationist. Not only that, he would chew them up one side and down the other for their misleading tactics and their denial of what God has revealed to us in his creation.
Do you have a crystal ball or some channel to St. Augustine?
Since you said earlier you're a Christian, I'd be interested on your definition of the term.
I don't know about that, but of all the articles you pinged me to, it appears most of the usual suspects chose this one to infect with their usual failed projections and drivel.
What does that have to with anything, other than trying to change the subject and pretend that I support those organizations? If you were capable of doing so, you would defend your argument on its merits.
To answer your question though, consider that China is an officially atheist country and persecutes Christians terribly. The Chinese government makes the NEA and the ACLU look like Ronald Reagan in comparison. Yet Christianity is growing by leaps and bounds even though you can lose your liberty, your belongings, your family, or your life by proclaiming the gospel. People can be brought to know Christ regardless of the NEA and the ACLU.
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