Posted on 12/03/2008 8:14:35 AM PST by Scythian
This birth certificate issue has been going on for some time now and for those hoping for some kind of dramatic outcome you are in for another big disappointment.
First, there is always the chance that there is a valid birth certificate proving Obama to be a US citizen.
Second, enough time has passed such that the Obama cult has manufactured and installed a phony certificate that will re-route us back up to option 1 above, he will have a valid certificate. Who do you think works in these kinds of government offices? They're all democrats.
Third, no court is going to force Obama to prove himself to be a citizen, the burden is on those making the accusation that he is not a citizen. A criminal doesn't have to prove he didn't commit a crime, the state has to prove that he did.
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Flame on, and sorry for the Vanity, but this is driving me nutz, this issue gets my hopes up but then common sense dashes my hope on the rocks, and this now is a daily occurrence. You are going to find a valid certificate at the end of this road if you are lucky enough to get a judge to demand it, and that is very unlikely, whether the certificate be real or phony it won't matter, and will never be able to proven either way.
The one being aged by forgers as we type
***That’s my fear. It will be a true first class forgery, worth $Millions. There will be a mistake or two, but it will simply take too much effort and too long to find them.
I was sure the Edwards love child thing was a sham, but then....
I guess I wasn’t specific enough in my statement. I actually meant to say that Obama’s ‘natural-born’ status is determined by his fathers nationality at the time of his birth. Since Obama, Sr. was a British subject, so was Obama.
The constitution requires that the President be a ‘natural-born’ citizen (No person except a natural born Citizen...shall be eligible to the Office of President). The founders were NOT natural born citizens, and they knew it. That’s why they left a loop hole for themselves (or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution). Citizens with dual allegiances “at birth” are not allowed for the office of President, or VP. Note both ‘citizen’ and ‘natural born citizen’ are given as requirements. Obviously one can’t be the other.
The constitution is the Supreme law of the land. Statutes passed by congress declaring who is, or who is not a citizen, are fine. However, congress can’t “define” a term of the constitution. That’s for the court to decide. If statutes violate the constitution they become null and void. The interpretation of the term ‘natural-born’ citizen then is left for the Supreme Court to decide, not congress.
My main point though was that there must be some other reason why Obama doesn’t show his birth certificate.
A step in the right direction toward Oba Mao Communism? Is this what you're trying to tell me or to do you believe it's inevitable and we just should "derail" our pursue of righting the wrongs?
Tell it ain't so, Joe!
We have forever to prove the new one is a forgery if it indeed is, don’t we?
Then he’s an impeachable felon.
There likely is another reason, I agree. But, the stipulation that it be the father was discarded in the late 1890s, I believe, and was replaced by “a parent”.
The loophole in the Constitution was put in place for a single person, by the way. Every one of the Founders met the requirement that they were born in what became the United States, save one: Alexander Hamilton was born in the Bahamas.
Why, because it says; "Bastard" right on it?
So was I.. heck, if I am wrong, yip, yip, yahoo... but if I am right that we may be being played in this, we can add it to the list of all the games that have gone on so far, Larry Sinclair, drug dealing, Odingo E-Mails, Whitey Tape, API Michelle Obama tape, Kenyan birth certificate, Indonesian adoption records.. the list goes on and on all of the 'game changers' that turned out to not be true.
Then it falls naturally that he is not confident he’s natural born.
See post #174 for current law. It doesn't state 'father', just a parent. The father provisions are from reading 19th century laws, not current law that applies.
Sure, no problem, how about his claim that:
I have REPEATEDLY stated that Obama can release a golden birth certificate signed by 100 gazzillion witnesses embossed in gold leaf that he was born on the mall in Washington DC and it still wouldn’t make him a “Natural Born Citizen” under the Constitution because he was, regardless of where he was born, a BRITISH citizen “at birth.” Since he was “born” as a British citizen/subject, his United States citizenship was not “natural”.
This argument has no support in the Constitution or Federal statutory or case law. What Donofrio is arguing, essentially, is that foreign countries can, by passing a law, disqualify Americans from the Presidency. So, North Korea would pass a law stating that henceforth, any American citizen from birth is also a citizen of North Korea, thereby disqualifying anyone after the date of such law from serving as President.
Granted, this hypothetical is unlikely to happen, but it just illustrates how untenable his position is, in that it looks to foreign citizenship laws, rather than the laws of the US, to determine whether or not one is qualified to server as President.
I think I misread your original and missed something. When did Obama try to have the definition of ‘natural born’ expanded?
Forever?
If.. we can.. just.... hold out.... lonnnngggg enough......(thud!)
Meanwhile, he is free to damgae our Republic at will?
Also, you can't have access to much from behind bars.
As in; you and I will probably be convicted of something during his reign.
"Consider the following hypothetical, with known or commonly assumed facts mixed in: Barack Obama was born in Honolulu of married parents, of which his mother was a U.S. citizen, and his father was a subject of the United Kingdom by virtue of his Kenyan nationality. At this point, and at least temporarily, Barack Obama is a natural born citizen. Fast forward to when Barack Obama turns 18. He is now an adult, and remains a natural born citizen. By virtue of the fact that Kenya is no longer a colony of the UK, Barack is also a full-fledged citizen of Kenya. As a dual citizen of the U.S. and Kenya, Barack now has options which, as an adult, he is fully empowered to exercise. For example, now that he is an adult, he can formally renounce his Kenyan citizenship. Since he has not renounced U.S. citizenship he has held since birth, he is free and clear to run for president of the U.S. once he attains the age of 35.
But let’s say he does nothing for the time being. He is an 18 year old adult holding dual citizenship in the U.S. and Kenya, just living his life. He enrolls in Occidental College as an out-of-state freshman, ostensibly of U.S. nationality and citizenship. Tiring of Occidental, he learns of opportunities available at Ivy League colleges and universities for foreign nationals to matriculate at a steep tuition discount, lower entrance requirements, or both. Possessing Kenyan citizenship, Obama thinks, hey, why not apply and see what happens. He fills out a Columbia application, indicates Kenyan citizenship, signs the application, and sends it to Columbia. Much to his surprise, he is accepted, and he matriculates at the age of 20 as part of Columbia’s program for accommodating students of foreign nationality. By the time Barack Obama reaches age 21, he has failed to formally renounce U.S. citizenship. By operation of Kenyan law, he loses his Kenyan citizenship. Retaining his U.S. citizenship, Barack Obama finishes his degree at Columbia, and begins living the rest of his life.
The Supreme Court will consider Barack Obama’s personal behavior between the ages of 18 and 21 to be directly relevant to the question as to whether he presently possesses Constitutionally-valid natural born citizen status. More particularly, they will be evaluating his actions during that time for any evidence of deliberate actions which are inconsistent with a desire on his part to preserve his Constitutionally-valid natural born citizen status. They will be presented with the documentation comprising his Columbia application and find where he declared himself to be a Kenyan citizen for the purpose of gaining admission and/or obtaining a break on tuition. Based on this, they will conclude that Barack Obama forfeited his previously-held Constitutionally-valid natural born citizen status. This despite the fact that Barack Obama never gave up his U.S. citizenship proper."
Such a defense would get laughed out of court, unless the defendant could provide some evidence for his claim.
The defendant then has the constitution right to demand the evidence supporting Barrack Obama's legitimacy be provided to the defendant for forensic review.
No, he wouldn't. The defendant couldn't go on a fishing expedition for evidence- he would have to show evidence of his claim before any court would let him do anything.
I am not a constitutional lawyer, so I would argue this point poorly. Edwin Vieira who has been a constitutional attorney for 30 years and holds 4 degres from Harvard can argue the point quite well. He in fact is the source of the concept I passed on. You would do well to examine his learned opinion before pretending you know what you are talking about.
‘42.5% of the total population voted’ is an interesting missuse of stats ... the real issue is what percentage of eligible to vote population voted! The percentage goes way up under that comparison.
Take your obamanoid kneepads off and sit a while. ANd you might want to do a bit more reading ...
We have forever to prove the new one is a forgery if it indeed is, don’t we? Then he’s an impeachable felon.
***We would only have 8 years to impeach him. And I doubt we’d get much cooperation. Someone with big bucks would need to hire Polarik full time, pulling him away from his book project.
Actually none of them were born in the United States. They were all born within a British colony subject to George III.
Well you missed with that one. Try again.
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