They're trying to teach Creationism! Waaaa!
Judge, make them stop!
Posted on 11/25/2008 6:10:27 AM PST by Ethan Clive Osgoode
From Evolution and its Relation to Religious Thought (1888, Appleton & Co.) The first paragraph is taken from ppg 257-258. The rest, from ppg 279--285. Joseph Le Conte was a professor of geology and natural history at U of California. His work was cited by Darwinians as evidence that Darwinians have no evil designs against peoples' faith in God (eg, by H.H. Newman, of Scopes trial fame.) You judge.
Joseph Le Conte
From what has preceded, the reader will perceive that we regard the law of evolution as thoroughly established. In its most general sense, i. e., as a law of continuity, it is a necessary condition of rational thought. In this sense it is naught else than the universal law of necessary causation applied to forms instead of phenomena. It is not only as certain as - it is far more certain than--the law of gravitation, for it is not a contingent, but a necessary truth like the axioms of geometry. It is only necessary to conceive it clearly, to accept it unhesitatingly. The consensus of scientific and philosophical opinion is already well-nigh, if not wholly complete. If there are still lingering cases of dissent among thinking men, it is only because such do not yet conceive it clearly--they confound it with some special form of explanation of evolution which they, perhaps justly, think not yet fully established. We have sometimes in the preceding pages used the words evolutionist or derivationist; they ought not to be used any longer. The day is past when evolution might be regarded as a school of thought. We might as well talk of gravitationist as of evolutionist.[1]
WE have already said that evolution does not differ essentially from other laws of Nature in its hearing on religious helief. It only reiterates and enforces with additional emphasis what Science, in all its departments, has heen saying all along. The difficulties in the way of certain traditional views have pressed with ever increasing force upon the thoughtful mind ever since the birth of modern science. All along, an issue has been gathering, but put off from time to time by compromise, until now, at last, the issue is forced upon us and compromise is exhausted. The issue (let us look it squarely in th e face) is: Either God is far more closely related with Nature, and operates it in a more direct way than we have recently been accustomed to think, or else (mark the alternative) Nature operates itself and needs no God at all. There is no middle ground tenable.
Let us trace rapidly the growth of this issue. The old idea and the most natural to the religious mind was the direct agency of God in every event and phenomenon of Nature. This view is nobly expressed in the noblest literature in the world--in the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures: "He looketh on the earth and it trembleth. He toucheth the hills and they smoke." "He maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth his rain on the just and on the unjust." But now comes Science and explains all these phenomena by natural laws and resident forces, and we all accept her explanation. Thus, one by one the phenomena of Nature are explained by the operation of resident forces according to natural laws, until the whole course of Nature, as we now know it, has been, or will be, or conceivably may be, thus explained.
Thus has gradually grown up, without our confessing it, a kind of scientific polytheism--one great Jehovah, perhaps, but with many agents or sub-gods, each independent, efficient, and doing all the real work in his own domain. The names of these, our gods, are gravity, light, heat, electricity, magnetism, chemical affinity, etc., and we are practically saying: " These be your gods, Israel, which brought you out of the land of Egyptian darkness and ignorance. These be the only gods ye need fear, and serve, and studv the ways of."
What, then, is practically the notion which most people seem to have of the relation of Deity to Nature? It is that of a great master-mechanic far away above us and beyond our reach, who once upon a time, long ago, and once for all, worked, created matter, endowed it with necessary properties and powers, constructed at once out of hand this wonderful cosmos with its numberless wheels within wheels, endowed it with forces, put springs in it, wound it up, set it a-going, and then--rested. The thing has continued to go of itself ever since. He might have not only rested but slept, and the thing would have gone of itself. He might not only have slept but died, and still the thing would have continued to go of itself. But, no, I forget. He must not sleep or die, for the work is not absolutely perfect. There are some things too hard even for Him to do in this masterful, god-like way. There are some things which even He can not do except in a 'prentice-like, man-like way. The hand must be introduced from time to time to repair, to rectify, to improve, especially to introduce new parts, such as new organic forms.
Such was the state of the compromise until twenty-five years ago. Nature is sufficient of itself for its course and continuance, but not for origins of at least some new parts. Such was the state of the compromise until Darwin and the theory of evolution. But, now, even this poor privilege of occasional interference is taken away. Now, origins, as well as courses, are reduced to resident forces and natural law. Now, Nature is sufficient of itself, not only for sustentation, but also for creation. Thus, Science has seemed to push Him farther and farther away from us, until now, at last, if this view be true, evolution finishes the matter by pushing Him entirely out of the universe and dispensing with Him altogether. This, of course, is materialism. But this is no new view now brought forward for the first time by evolution. On the contrary, evolution only finishes what science has been doing all along.
See, then, how the issue is forced. Either Nature is sufficient of itself and wants no God at all, or else this whole idea, the history of which we have been tracing, is radically false. "We have here given by science either a demonstration of materialism or else a reductio ad absurdum. Which is it? I do not hesitate a moment to say it is a reductio ad absurdum. And I believe that evolution has conferred an inestimable benefit on philosophy and on religion by forcing this issue and compelling us to take a more rational view.
What, then, is the alternative view? It is the utter rejection with Berkeley and with Swedenborg of the independent existence of matter and the real efficient agency of natural forces. It is the frank return to the old idea of direct divine agency, but in a new, more rational, less anthropomorphic form. It is the bringing together and complete reconciliation of the two apparently antagonistic and mutually excluding views of direct agency and natural law. Such reconciliation we have already seen is the true test of a rational philosophy. It is the belief in a God not far away beyond our reach, who once long ago enacted laws and created forces which continue of themselves to run the machine we call Nature, but a God immanent, a God resident in Nature, at all times and in all places directing every event and determining every phenomena--a God in whom in the most literal sense not only we but all things have their being, in whom all things consist, through whom all things exist, and without whom there would be and could be nothing. According to this view the phenomena of Nature are naught else than objectified modes of divine thought, the forces of Nature naught else than different forms of one omnipresent divine energy or will, the laws of Nature naught else than the regular modes of operation of that divine will, invariable because He is unchangeable. According to this view the law of gravitation is naught else than the mode of operation of the divine energy in sustaining the cosmos--the divine method of sustentation; the law of evolution naught else than the mode of operation of the same divine energy in originating and developing the cosmos--the divine method of creation; and Science is the systematic knowledge of these divine thoughts and ways--a rational system of natural theology. In a word, according to this view, there is no real efficient force but spirit, and no real independent existence but God.
But some will object that this is pure Idealism. Yes, but far different from what usually goes under that name. The ideal philosophy as usually understood regards the external world as having no real objective ex- istence outside of ourselves--as objectified mental states of the observer--as literally such stuff as dreams are made of--as a mere phantasmagoria of trooping shadows having no real existence but in the mind of the dreamer, and each dreamer makes his own world. Not so in the idealism above presented. According to this the external world is the objectified mides, not of tlie mind of the observer, but of the mind of God. According to this, the external world is not a mere unsubstantial fig- ment or dream, but for us a very substantial objective reality surrounding us and conditioning us on every side.
Again, it will be objected that this is pure Pantheism. Again, we answer "yes." Call it so if you like, but far different from what goes under that name, far different from the pantheism which sublimates the personality of the Deity into all-pervading unconscious force, and thereby dissipates all our hopes of personal relation with him. Properly understood, we believe this view completely reconciles the two antagonistic and mutually excluding views of impersonal pantheism and anthropomorphic personalism, and is therefore more rational than either. The discussion of this most important point can only come up after the next chapter, because the argument for the personality of Deity is derived, not from without by the study of Nature, but from within in our own consciousness. We therefore put off its discussion for the present.
But, finally, some will object, "We can not live and work effectively under such a theory unless, indeed, we escape through pantheism." It may, alas! be true that this view brings us too near Him in our sense of spiritual nakedness and shortcoming. It may, indeed, be that we can not live and work in the continual realized presence of the Infinite. It may, indeed, be that we must still wear the veil of a practical materialism on our hearts and minds. It may, indeed, be that in our practical life and scientific work we must still continue to think of natural forces as efficient agents. But, if so, let us at least remember that this attitude of mind must be regarded only as our ordinary work-clothes--necessary work-clothes it may be of our outer lower life--to be put aside when we return home to our inner higher life, religious and philosophical.
note:
[1] this paragraph appears after a lengthy section where Le Conte puts forward proofs and evidences for evolution. Evidence includes fake science about recapitulation, embryology, and 'fish stages' of development.
OK, educate me. How old are the Rockies and what is the rate of erosion?
I don’t need a counter argument in order to recognize a flawed one.
Reading really IS fundamental.
Can you produce a science text showing us where "XENU" was taught in science class before the cult of evolution took hold and demanded prayer and God or anything like God including creation etc., got booted from the disasters that are today public schools?
Maybe you can take a stab at explaining what the chemist said that was particularly "religious"?
So far the one and only time one of you cultists did so, he shrugged it off and got huffy and left.
Like prop 8.Like Michael Newdow demanding IGWT be removed from coins, like mangers removed from poublic,Christmas trees removed from schools, 10 commandments removed from courthouses, etc. etc. etc.
I see that we’ve tweaked a sore spot by pointing out that your side of the argument is “running to mama” in order to get your way.
No!
The link between creationism and elections is only big when it’s big and it’s not big when it’s not big. Right!
So when you are talking to a fellow evolutionist it’s BIG.
“No “vast amounts of time” are spent by your average evolutionary biologist on the hypothetical origins of life.”
Then your “below average” evolutionary biologist must be gumming up the works with talk of abiogenesis. Because anybody that has been awake has heard of primordial soup and the like as if it is a big deal. Or did those highly imaginative christians come up with that one too.
I’m seeing a pattern here. So abiogenesis is big when it’s big and not big when it’s not big.
I take it back you are consistent.
Yup, for such a small deal they expend an enormous amount of money and time and energy in courts to stomp anything remotely God/religious/far right fundmentalist out of the public don’t they?
When you get what you “know” about biology from creationists it is no wonder that you are confused about basic details like the origins of life not being covered by evolutionary theory.
I have long maintained that the reason most creationists charlatans don't spend any time attacking abiogenesis because most creationists who they are selling their books to don't know what it is, don't want to know what it is, and think it is indistinguishable from biological evolution anyway. Thanks for the confirmation.
If you go to PubMed and search “evolution” you will find 231,356 hits. Search “abiogenesis” and you will find 13 hits. Hardly “gumming up the works”. I guess you don't really know as much about what is going on in biological research as you think.
What chemist?
But it is just as applicable to any issue in which one side refuses to try to convince the majority that they are correct,
and run to the courts to get their position forced on the public without recourse.
It is a tacit admission of the logical weakness of that position.
Actually, in the case of evolution, it's that the evos CAN'T convince the majority that they are correct.
For the decades of teaching evo in public schools, the majority of Americans still believe in either creation or some form of ID. The number that hold the hardline evo position that is advocated on FR is relatively small, much to the evoatheist's chagrin.
Therefore, since they are incapable of progressing on their own merit, they use the heavy hand of the government to enforce compliance to their wishes.
You don’t like having your arguments held up to critical examination, do you?
FOTFL.
Do they believe that Cretionism/ID is science?
Einstein’s equations and theories get proved by observaton of actual physics occurring in laboratories.
I don’t agree with these definitions at all.
And how is that different than all the pictures that evos post about creationists?
Evos are in no position to point fingers about pictures, because the same could be said of them.
Do you want to be treated as an individual, or part of a collective?
>> For the decades of teaching evo in public schools, the majority of Americans still believe in either creation or some form of ID.
What are you basing this on?
OF COURSE! You know MrB, kinda like they don't need to explain why ID theory is held to ridiculous standards while abiogenesis theory (or whatever the language is today) gets off scott free!OR how atheists just get their morals from...well themselves...while they demand the 10 commandments be removed from the public, etc. etc. etc.
They aren’t used to ridicule being used against them, but we need to learn to use it better -
Satan cannot abide scorn.
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