Posted on 11/19/2008 9:11:02 AM PST by kellynla
Catholic members of Congress who vote for the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) could face “automatic excommunication” if the act is determined to be “formal cooperation” in the evil of abortion.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...
[[Ahh, but if you had REALLY accepted Christ as your Savior, you wouldn’t be voting to kill babies, now would you?]]
Cripes- But if YOU had REALLY accepted Christ- you wouldn’t EVER comit any since henceforth I guess then, huh? By your standards- NOONE could ever REALLY be saved I guess- Glad I don’t belong to Your God!
btw, I suggest you stick to what you know...whatever that is... because you obviously know little about Catholicism and/or the Bible(and for the record, we DO capitalize Catholic ‘round here)I am a Catholic. According to Catholicism, murder and idolatry are sins. If Catholic politicians have a duty to criminalize abortion because it is a sin (like killing born people is a sin), then why would they not have a duty to criminalize idolatry for that same reason?
Church teachings are pretty clear in terms of divorce, and its opposition to the death penalty had been stated in no uncertain terms. Yet divorce is freely available and is subsidized by the federal government, and Catholic politicians need not fear when they support those laws. Opposition to capital punishment would be the kiss of death for many a politician's career, and likewise the Church doesn not sanction politicians who support that. It all depends on the popularity of the sin.
Now, there are a few Catholic no-no’s: abortion, euthanasia, etcAnd idolatry. According to the Catholic faith, it is sinful to worship another god, or to bow down to a statue or graven image.
its opposition to the death penalty had been stated in no uncertain termsWhat was its opposition to the death penalty during the Inquisition?
Uh..what?If Catholic politicians have a duty to vote to criminalize abortion, then they also have a duty to vote to criminalize idolatry.
In the matter of grave sin, both are equal parties: The former by Commission, since the politician is a legislator that MAKES Law... the later by Consent, since the voter enables the politician to become a legislator.
That 'wonky church' has been around for around 2000 years, thank you very much. Which is about 1800 or 1900 years longer than whatever group you congregate with.
FYI In 1963 the Bishop of New Orleans excommunicated Democratic leader of new Orleans Parish, Leander Perez, for publicly opposing intergration in the diocese's schools. Liberals acclaimed the bishop and the Church for the action. Excommunication was popular then.
Since John the Baptist told Herod that it was not right for him to fool around with his brother's wife. And just as John paid for his outspokenness with his head, so today, some still become enraged to hear truth spoken.
I love it, though. When the subject is Pius XII, Hitler and WWII, the vacuous refrain is "the Catholic Church should have spoken out more. It didn't do enough".
When the subject is the American government, the habitual attitude is STFU!! Don't tell the state what to do!
The exact opposite, IOW.
We can't win! We're too silent.......we're too outspoken.....no, we're too silent........no wait, we're too outspoken!
You're telling us that if another Hitler were to come along the Church should keep its nose out of the situation? Here's a clue. All moral matters are within the purview of the Catholic Church which was established by Jesus Christ and answers to God, not man!!!
It's pretty amazing, even the people you think are knowledgeable don't know the "half of it."
“If a person is born again- thgen you are forever redeemed, regardless of some wonky church beliefs- Once you accept Christ as Savior, you’re name is forever written in the Lamb’s book of life, and no man can erase that- including ourselves- it’s permanent...”
Oh, really? So, if you, being a baptized Christian, who recited the “sinner’s prayer,” then later rejected all that Christ taught... you still would be saved, eh? Your logic is full of holes... as is your “theology.” Deeds must match words. Faith without deeds is a dead faith. Or don’t you believe what ALL of Holy Scripture teaches?
As a religion, Catholicism has a belief system and dogma and doctrine. The Catholic dogma on abortion is that it is the taking of innocent human life. That is believed by Catholics, according to the Church's interpretation of the natural law, to be an intrinsic evil. Matters of beliefs and practices are matters of the faith and wrong for the Faithful. An intrinsic evil is WRONG and must be denounced. The Church cannot, nor should it, exercise civil control, beyond its right to petition the govt. But the Church has every right and responsibility to denounce the actions of its nominal members who, PUBLICLY,deny the teachings of the Faith. One does not have to be Catholic, but if one chooses that path, one cannot publicly deny and act against its Dogma and Doctrine.Catholic dogma also teaches that idolatry is an intrinsic evil. Now, I have no problem with the Church excommunicating members, even politicians, who advocate having an abortion even if the unborn poses no unjust threat to innocent life nor is a foreign invader (note that since it is okay to kill born people who are unjust threats to innocent life or who are foreign invaders, the same justification may be used for killing unborn), or bowing down to a statue of the Blessed Virgin. Abortion (in most cases) and idolatry (in all cases) are sins. But I definitely have a problem with the Church telling Catholic politicians that they must use their political power to make sure that no American can have an abortion or worship an idol.
Exactly my thoughts. The OT is littered with examples of wrath of God for those that do not stand up against what is evil in His eyes. In the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, for example, all were destroyed.
Unlike idolotry, abortion is ruled an instant excommunication in the Latin Catholic Church.
Abortion
2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73
My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74
2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:
You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75
God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76
2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,”77 “by the very commission of the offense,”78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.
2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:
“The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death.”80
“The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child’s rights.”81
2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.
Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, “if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence.”82
2275 “One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival.”83
“It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material.”84
“Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities. Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity”85 which are unique and unrepeatable.
We are not talking about the 10 Commandments here. We are talking about a stated position of the Catholic Church. Don’t want to follow that? There are lots of other churches to go to.
They could choose not to be Catholic if their belief system is in opposition to Church Doctrine.
No freedom of religion issue at stake at all.
They can always go to the “to whom it may concern” church, ie, the Unitarians.
Perhaps you should consider going through an RCIA class at a good traditional Catholic parish if you are truly a practicing Catholic.
Your Catechisis is lacking on this thread.
There has to be some REAL, concrete consequences for cooperation with intrinsic evil.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.