My house is well protected.
Posted on 11/10/2008 8:27:51 PM PST by virgin
NEW JERSEY VOTER VS. OBAMA AND McCAIN ON "NATURAL BORN CITIZEN" STATUS NOW BEFORE US SUPREME COURT - DONOFRIO v. WELLS - STANDING NOT CHALLENGED IN LOWER COURTS - OBAMA BIRTH CERTIFICATE NOT MAIN ISSUE
(Excerpt) Read more at democratic-disaster.com ...
If he’s foreign born, he should immediately be arrested for perpetrating a fraud on the United States.
I can’t see any condition under which the Constitution and the people of this country should be compromised.
Would some riot? Sure, but so be it. If it came to that, I think citizens of any and every race should be outraged that they had been lied to. Those who would riot, if they couldn’t understand that a foreign born President is unconstitutional and unacceptable, should be locked up along side the perpetrator.
I don’t see any compromise at all. Zero.
On November 4, Election Day, the voters choose Presidential Electors. Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution hands that authority to the state legislatures. Beginning in 1804, some states devolved that authority upon the people of the state, and by 1844 only South Carolina had its legislature still choosing Presidential Electors. And by 1868, even South Carolina fell into line.
Between November 4 and December 15, the day the Presidential Electors meet in their respective state capitals, the only issue that may be adjudicated is whether an individual Elector fulfills the conditions enumerated in Article II, Section 1. I recall a case from several decades ago where someone got sloppy and appointed a sitting congressman as a Presidential Elector. He had to be replaced at the last minute when somebody actually bothered to read the Constitution.
December 15 is our actual Election Day. The Presidential Electors mark their ballots, which are sealed and sent to Congress. Between December 15 and January 6, the day of the Tallying Ceremony before Congress, the Electoral Votes exist in a kind of time warp where they are secret and not subject to adjudication of any kind.
On January 6, Vice President Cheney presides as the Electoral Votes are tallied before both Houses of Congress seated in the House chamber. The states are called, the envelopes are opened, the results are announced, and the Electoral Votes are tallied.
Should there be a suspicion as to Obama’s qualifications under Article II, Section 1, one representative and one senator may challenge a state’s Electoral Votes for Obama. Then the senators would return to the Senate chamber, and the House and Senate would separately debate the matter.
This is the key moment. The proper body for adjudicating the issue of Obama’s qualifications for President is Congress, and this is the proper time for that adjudication. This is where the House and Senate should require Obama to provide birth information relevant to the challenge.
The way a challenge works is, if both the House and the Senate agree by majority vote to sustain the challenge, the Electoral Votes of that state are thrown out. Failure to achieve this level of agreement means that the Electoral Votes are accepted by default. Congress may keep or throw out Electoral Votes but may not replace them.
If the challenge is defeated, Obama gets the Electoral Votes of that state, the senators troop back to the House chamber and the tally resumes. Eventually, Obama will receive in excess of 270 Electoral Votes, and Congress will declare him President-Elect.
If the challenge is sustained, Obama loses those Electoral Votes – and will eventually lose all his Electoral Votes as the tally ritual is repeated state after state. Because of this discarding of Obama’s Electoral Votes, no candidate will receive 270 Electoral Votes, and Congress will declare that the Electoral College has failed to elect a President. At that point, the 12th Amendment kicks in, and the House picks the President from the top three Electoral Vote getters, which are McCain, McCain and McCain.
I should note that, there being no challenge to Biden’s qualifications, Congress will state that the Electoral College has chosen him as Vice President-Elect.
Rather than go into all the fun and games of a 12th Amendment situation, I would like to explore what I think will really happen, which is that the Democratic Congress will refuse to even ask Obama to furnish proof of qualification under Article II, Section 1 when the challenge to his Electoral Votes is filed.
Congress is a sovereign body, and in theory no court, even the US Supreme Court, has the authority to order Congress to do something. But forty years ago the Powell case occurred. The House had expelled Adam Clayton Powell, Jr., the congressman from New York. Powell sued, and the Warren Court ordered the House to readmit him, which it did after some grumbling.
For the question of standing, logically it would be a congressman and a senator who would have the standing to take a failure of due diligence by Congress to court. The allegation would be that failure to investigate Obama’s qualifications constitutes dereliction of duty. Would this be enough for a “Powell situation”? Would the Roberts Court intervene, demanding Congress do its duty and investigate Obama’s qualifications? I can’t even guess at that one because it’s about politics, not just law.
Am I thinking like a constitutional lawyer, or am I full of -- uh -- mush?
Before the Electors vote - The Electors would vote for any person who is Constitutionally eligible to be President. It is not necessary for such a person to have been a Presidential or VP candidate.
After the Electors vote - Assuming the Obama Electors vote as expected, Vice President-elect Biden would become Vice President and Acting President at noon on January 20 pursuant to Section 3 of the 20th Amendment. Obama would trapped as President-elect, never to become President.
>National Guard could put down the slimey insurrection.<
Yes they could, unless there is rebellion among the ranks. Don’t forget that there are National Guard members who must’ve voted for Obama.
Chris Mathews is either ignorant or is attempting a bad joke aimed at Sarah Palin. There are much fewer than 57 states in Africa.
By far the most likely reason for Obama's gaffe is theat he was thinking of 57 Muslim states in the world.
I love your scenario!
And the title of President-Elect fits his morphed crapping eagle that hijacked ‘presidential seal’ and his current title on his transportable podium.
Barry could still traipse across the globe as an ambassador of wanna-be POTUS and the Left would be delighted to further delusion!
The Fourteenth Amendment makes it clear that all persons born in the United States are citizens at birth (regardless of the status of either parent or both).
His foreign national father would only make him constitutionally ineligible for POTUS if he was born outside the United States and its territories.
I certainly do not think you have a brain of mush, but I feel as though I am near mush trying to make sense of everything that is going on!
I am willing to accept that President-elect Obama will be our next President, but would hope that his election to the office is constitutionally legitimate! Right now I do not believe he is constitutionally qualified but fear the truth one way or the other will not be made known.
I keep falling back on the fact that all these questions could have been put to rest long ago. Obama’s continued fight to keep information sealed in case after case (whether filed by someone with standing or not) has led many to believe he has something serious to hide. Simply providing the documents would be so easy to do that I still wonder why Obama would not just bring all this controversy to an end and release the documents!
Proving he has an African Birth certificate would prove that the HI one is useless. Someone said earlier HI can issue any thing but that still doesn’t make him an American citizen. BTW HI changed the “born out side of the USA in 1972 just to prevent this type of thing from happening......IMO Someone needs to sue the state of HI.
I was in a high-level conference call yesterday and made this point which I've referred to before:
If a single Elector pledged to Obama decides to raise the question, it would be both raised and decided in the US Supreme Court on certiorari from the highest court in the state of that Elector.
The Complaint would point out that state law makes it a felony for an Elector not to vote the way he/she is pledged. On the other hand, the US Constitution places restrictions on whom an Elector can vote for. For instance, he/she cannot vote for a President and Vice President from the same state as the Elector.
Natural born citizen is another restriction (along with being 35) which would prevent an Elector from voting for a candidate. Therefore, the Complaint would demand that the court determine conclusively whether Obama was a natural born citizen. If he is not, all his Electors would be freed to vote as they chose, as were Horace Greeley's Electors when he died between the popular vote and the College vote.
There have been more than three dozen state court decisions on the qualifications of candidates, and in one case of an office holder, to hold their respective offices. Wherever the courts found the candidate disqualified, he/she was off the ballot or out of office.
This ain't rocket science. On the other hand, I do NOT expect such a case to occur.
Congressman Billybob
Latest article, "President Obama: How Bad Will It Be?"
The Declaration, the Constitution, parts of the Federalist, and America's Owner's Manual, here.
bttt
At which point someone will need to subpoena the vault copy in Hawaii.
“The Fourteenth Amendment makes it clear that all persons born in the United States are citizens at birth (regardless of the status of either parent or both).” Um, you must be mistaken since Barack Obama himself assumed the Constitutional rights of newly born alive children did not become valid by live birth, at least in Illinois, and he is the senator from Illinois.
No, the democrats are a criminal enterprise. They control Congress. They will not require a ‘vault copy’ and if they do you can be sure what is inspected will not be allowed to ‘damage’ the one. The Constitution counts not a whit where democrats are in control.
Once Obama was adopted in Indonesia, he became naturalized, as Indonesia did not accept dual citizenship w/ US. In order to restore status to natural, he was to repatriate himself (give allegiance to US / renounce Indonesian status) with re-entry to US. More than a couple (incl Berg) have made this clear- using the reigning law at the time. According to your logic, dual citizenship extends from US to all countries...and reciprocally back to US freely....at all times one chooses!
Welcome to Free Republic. That’s quite a prodigious entrance you make.
“If a single Elector pledged to Obama decides to raise the question, it would be both raised and decided in the US Supreme Court on certiorari from the highest court in the state of that Elector.”
I wonder if any Elector from any state has decided to raise the question, and if so has started the process to do so through the highest court in his/her state?
IIRC there are already a couple of dozen electorate that are asking for the BC.
Cal, do you have the source for this information and the exact number involved?
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