Ineligibility for the Presidency (Obama's Birth Certificate / Vanity)

Vanity | Today | Styria

[Styria]

This started as a reply on a birth certificate lawsuit thread that was locked before I could hit post. (It had reposted the unsigned order draft from the lawyer.) I don't have an opinion on whether or not Obama is a natural-born citizen. I just want to address what happens if he turns out to be ineligible.

First, before the election. The primaries and conventions are over. If Obama were to be knocked out, Hillary isn't going to appear on the ballot. The definite (or practical) answer is that the Electors can vote for whoever they want—provided he is eligible to be President. But you can’t change who is on the ballot in 50 different states three weeks before the election. The whole country isn’t New Jersey. Obama will be there, but it’s the Electors people are voting for.

The other definite answer is Amendment XX, Section 3:

3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.”

This means that the lawsuit to force Obama to produce his birth certificate and prove that he is a natural-born citizen can go on past the election. In fact, we have all the way to Noon on January 20th.

It's also clear that the Vice President elect will only act as President until someone qualifies, and this is a distinction from the first sentence which does give succession in the case of death before inaugeration. Once the Electoral College is finished, any further action on electing the President goes to the House of Representatives. Per Amendment XII, the House has to choose, voting by state, from a list of the top three recipients of Electoral College votes for President. John McCain will head this list.

• If Obama is knocked out before the Electors cast their votes in the various state, they will probably fracture and leave the House with the top two out of three Rat options. It would be Hillary vs. Biden vs. Obama publically endorsing someone else (Michelle is eligible!). And you know who Pelosi hates.
• If Obama is knocked out after the Electors vote, then the Democrats will be stuck with whoever one of the D.C. Electors casts his traditional protest vote for. (Over D.C. statehood and having taxation without voting representation in the House.) This includes not voting at all.
• The only other way Biden gets to be President rather than acting President, no matter what hysteria there is over the "popular vote," is if the House fails to choose a President by March 4th. Expect some amazing back-room deals with Pelosi if that happens.

In spite of people saying there will be a constitutional crisis if Obama is elected (besides the ongoing problems of government overstepping its bounds), the Constitution does provide its own means of dealing with this issue. In fact, even after January 20th, Biden and a majority of the Cabinet ("or of such other body as Congress may by law provide"...) could use Amendment XXV to stab Obama in the back by sending a letter to Congress stating Zero is unable to discharge the powers and duties of the office (Amendment XII includes the words "or other constitutional disability"), and force him to prove his eligibility there.

The last one is probably not likely, but the games available to deal with this issue are wide and varied. Do not underestimate the powers Congress has under the Constitution to deal with any crisis on succession to the Presidency.

[diverteach]

“Obama fans will go nuts if he’s disqualified. “

How nuts do you think people will be if he manages to win the election and THEN is found constitutionally ineligible afterwords?

[smoketree]

So if obama was born in Kenya as a citizen of Kenya and not a citizen of the US until later but never renounced his Kenyan citizenship that would be fine with you?
That would make him ineligible for the presidency wouldn’t it?
It doesn’t matter where his mother was born it is where he was born and the status of his citizenship.

[stockpirate]

“But exceptions were made for ‘natural birth’ in specific statutes for children of US public servants — and military”

They actually wrote statutes as you mentioned but even by those changes he is not a citizen.

That is why Obama is stonewalling.

[TitansAFC]

The real question here is:

Is there ANYWAY to get the mainstream media - even the GOP media - to start taking up this issue?

Any way at all?!?!?!

[CindyDawg]

I hear you. The best solution just seems for McCain to win.

[Styria]

Thank you for commenting on the Constitution and electoral process rather than Obama's mom. ;)

The House can only vote for the top three eligible recipients of Electoral College votes. If Hillary is one of those three, then the House has the option to give it to here. That wouldn't be stealing it, because it's following exactly what the Constitution provides.

I think the Electors vote in December. Dick Cheney would be the one opening the certified Electoral College votes before Congress. He's not going to sneak in Hillary's name if it's not already there.

[Rapunzel]

We need to get this on front page everywhere. Like the Obama party, if we repeat it often enough it must be true!

This is not new news, but so many people do not know about this since he was/is a US Senator.

Of course in Illinois politics a little thing like being a natural born citizen is just like a little fly being brushed away.

You know politics as usual, nothing to see here folks, lets move on!!!

I want to see the COLB before November 4th!!!

[autumnraine]

Guys, just breaking on Texas Darling website.

Phillip Berg, the attorney who is filing for proof of Obama’s citizenship has amended his complaint on October 9 stating there are 3 certified copies of Barack Obama born in Coast Provincial General Hospital, Mombasa, Kenya.

Copies of Berg’s amendment at link.
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/

Also, Hawaii issues certificates of live birth when a child of a Hawaiian citizen is born outside the US.

“[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.”

[An Old Man]

Riots will be the rule of the day."

Not in my neighborhood! The committee will deal with those who attempt such illegal actions.

[Doug TX]

Here is a link to American Thinker’s page on this issue. The video includes Mr. Berg and is very thorough. It should answer most of your questions. Worthwhile.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/this_could_be_the_game_changer.html

[TexasCajun]

BTTT

[blueyon]

“Obama’s mother is a US citizen at his birth. Therefore he is a citizen. End of story.”

Not really as it is my understanding that since she was a minor at the time of birth and the law again at that time stated you had to be of legal age..blows the theory of because his mom was a citizen to pieces. I will try to find where I read that and post it if I remember.

[stockpirate]

I’m purchasing a close quarter 12 gauge pump just in case, 5-6 boxes of shells too. Never know when rabbits or such may cause some problems.

[lula]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyspCRmJv7w

[stratman67]

According to what I just found, he’s right.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html

But I’m confused on why this lawyer would pursue this. His mother has never been questioned as far as her citizenship goes.

[razorback-bert]

parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child

Had Obama's momma lived in Hawaii for a year? There are so many stories, that I forget exactly how long she was there.

[autumnraine]

You know, good point. I do know she went to high school there, but I don’t know when they moved to Hawaii.

[btcusn]

But I’m confused on why this lawyer would pursue this. His mother has never been questioned as far as her citizenship goes.
Intersting, he seems to have qualified as a natural citizen. Now, when he was attending school in Indonesia, I understan that he had to be a citizen of Indonesia to attend school there, and on his admittance records it was listed as Indonesian. If so, than it means that he volunteered to give up his United States citizenship since the document you linked to states that he cannot swear allegiance to another country even though he was only a young child, his mother and stepfather may have done this for/to him without his consent or knowledge of it.

Jack

[autumnraine]

Please read this section of the bullets:

Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)

Barack’s mother was only 18 and minors do not count. According to Article II (I believe) the five years have to be over the age of 16.

Also, the constitution was amended since Barack was born. You would have to find the actual statutes that applies when he was born.

[An Old Man]

"Also, the constitution was amended since Barack was born. You would have to find the actual statutes that applies when he was born."

Sorry, there are no statutes.:<(
However, you can poke yer browser to the Constitution of the United States of America where you will find this bit of information.

Article. II. - The Executive Branch
Section 1 - The President

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

That's the way it has been since the Constitution was written. The only foreign born who were ever eligiblle to be president were here when the constitution was written. That would make them really Old Men today