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Conservatives Viewed Bailout Plan as Last Straw
new york times ^ | 9/27/08 | CARL HULSE

Posted on 09/27/2008 8:42:05 AM PDT by mathprof

The seeds of the House Republican revolt over the financial industry bailout were sown in an e-mail message circulated Monday night as internal animosity built quickly over the Bush administration’s request for $700 billion to prevent an economic collapse.

In a message to members of the conservative Republican Study Committee, leaders of the bloc of more than 100 lawmakers solicited ideas, calling for a “free-market alternative to the Treasury Department’s proposal so that, regardless of how individual R.S.C. members vote on final passage, House conservatives have something to be for.”

As the week progressed, it became abundantly clear that one thing conservative Republicans were most certainly not for was the Treasury plan, prompting them to begin searching for an alternative to avoid the perception of strictly being naysayers.

By the end of Friday, at least a portion of their alternative seemed likely to be included in the broader proposal as a sweetener for Republicans, although closed-door negotiations continued into the evening on Friday, and the contours of the final package remained in limbo.

After years of acceding to the White House on a variety of initiatives despite deep misgivings, House Republicans found the administration’s latest proposal to be too much to swallow.

[snip]

They also complain that Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. has been too quick to bargain mainly with Democrats, led by the House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi of California, and Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, not only on this plan but on the stimulus proposal earlier this year, a subsequent housing bill and other economic measures.

[snip]

For example, in advance of the president’s speech Wednesday, Representative Thaddeus McCotter of Michigan, a member of the Republican leadership, sent out this statement expressing his pique: “Who’s giving the Republican response?”

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 110th; bailout; bush; congress; conservatives; govwatch; mccotter; paulson
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To: misterrob

It’s not capitalism. It’s a soft tyranny. The gov’t is the problem. Not the market.


81 posted on 09/27/2008 10:21:27 AM PDT by VRWC For Truth (Palin is sugar on a turd ... No mas Juan "Traitor Rat" McAmnesty)
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To: goldstategop

Hey, people decided the throw the RINOS out and let the dems have a go at things. Now that we are 20 months into the experiment how’s everyone liking things?


82 posted on 09/27/2008 10:21:49 AM PDT by misterrob (Obama-Keep the Change!)
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To: Publius6961
there is literally nothing for the fake mortgages scam to occur all over again.

Yes, there is. Shareholders have been burned, and bad. They will be extremely leary of entering the same burning building twice.

and no one has suggested fixing that.

No one has suggested any future legislation lately. The one currently on the table (to pull us back from the abyss) is keeping legislators up 24/7 as it is.

I think everyone knows that one is soon to be addressed.

83 posted on 09/27/2008 10:22:09 AM PDT by what's up
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To: Publius6961

And I agree with what you say. Too many little guys are going to get creamed here for nothing they did wrong. There is a solution that doesn’t reward bad behavior, doesn’t screw the tax payer and allows commerce and every day life to continue. It still should never have gotten to this point but that horse left the barn a lonnnnnnng time ago.


84 posted on 09/27/2008 10:24:19 AM PDT by misterrob (Obama-Keep the Change!)
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To: VRWC For Truth
A recession is NORMAL

Yes, and almost everyone agrees there will be one.

Question is, do you want to mitigate its effects or drive the economy down way deeper than it has to go?

You can shrug your shoulders and say, "Ah, we must surrender to the will of Allah" or you can say, "well, we will suffer, but let's take action so the suffering will not be as intense".

85 posted on 09/27/2008 10:25:24 AM PDT by what's up
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To: dalereed
If Bush signs it he should be not only impeached but tried for treason!

Let's avoid sounding like petulant children, shall we?

The perpetrators of the original problem, Congress, is the only entity allowed to impeach a president.

If this is their plan, how would you persuade them to impeach Bush for accepting it?

Rewind your life for several days. What just happened?
The 'Rats formulated a plan, and claimed (lied) that the Republicans were on board, then presented it to the President as a fait accompli then sprung the trap when the Republicans appeared to be the "spoilers" of their perfect plan.
This for the 'Rats, is business as usual.

The biggest surprise, for me, is that enough Republicans found the cojones to say, "Just a minute here..."

86 posted on 09/27/2008 10:27:39 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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To: misterrob
Unprincipled capitalism caused this mess. I hate the idea of government involvement but damn, how many times are greed and immaturity going to push this country to the brink?

You are wrong !

This crisis was caused by the Thuggery of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd.

They and their Marxist/Anarchist allies: ACORN, LaRaza etc.


87 posted on 09/27/2008 10:28:05 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their ROCK, And the Most High God their Redeemer.)
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To: VRWC For Truth

No, I disagree. All people were concerned about was making money. Buying and flipping houses, borrowing against their assets to finance their lifestyles, buying stuff they couldn’t afford, betting on risky financial instruments, ignoring common sense, etc..

Yeah, government played a role in getting us here but self-interest played a huge roll as well. I hope people learn the painful lessons from all this:

1) Don’t borrow what you cannot afford to pay back

2) Don’t assume the market is going to go up forever

3) Save cash and have access to capital for when you need it


88 posted on 09/27/2008 10:28:22 AM PDT by misterrob (Obama-Keep the Change!)
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To: XeniaSt

Yeah right. ACORN/Dodd/Fwank/etc were not the ones buying the houses, they weren’t the ones packaging and selling the bad debt, they weren’t the ones taking shareholder assets or depositors money and betting them at the craps table.

Yes, plenty of people lived honestly, paid their bills and lived within their means but bubbles don’t happen simply due to bad government policies. It takes greedy people with no regard for the broader economy to have this happen as well.

No one forced anyone to take on a loan that they couldn’t pay back.


89 posted on 09/27/2008 10:34:36 AM PDT by misterrob (Obama-Keep the Change!)
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To: what's up
Yes, there is. Shareholders have been burned, and bad. They will be extremely leary of entering the same burning building twice.

You're kidding, right?
The criminals are at the forefront of the process, in gigantic institutions with no effective oversight, or in places like Freddy Mac and Fannie Mae, where they have direct access to the cash cow.

The real victims, what you call 'the investors', the millions of individuals in retirement accounts twice or three times removed from the actual investment action, have neither the expertise nor the time to avoid being sucked in no matter how leery they are.

If you have a 401(k) or IRAs administered by someone else somewhere, do you receive reports the size of a phone book that you receive 3 or 4 time a year? Do you read them all? Do you have the capacity to understand them?

Didn't think so.

90 posted on 09/27/2008 10:39:05 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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To: Desdemona

The modern equivalent of the musket.


91 posted on 09/27/2008 10:40:22 AM PDT by DonnerT (Politicians are professional parasites!)
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To: Publius6961

The plan might have been out into bill form by the democraps but it was hatched by Bush, Pulson, and Bernakie, all three traitors!


92 posted on 09/27/2008 10:42:44 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: misterrob
No one forced anyone to take on a loan that they couldn’t pay back

No but every mortgage banker were forced to grant a loan to anyone who applied.

There were Ninja loans ( No Income No Job No Assets) given to anyone who applied.

This was done through rules of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac with CRA
(community redeveloment act) from Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.


93 posted on 09/27/2008 10:44:16 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 78:35 And they remembered that God was their ROCK, And the Most High God their Redeemer.)
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To: Publius6961
the millions of individuals in retirement accounts twice or three times removed from the actual investment action, have neither the expertise nor the time to avoid being sucked in no matter how leery they are.

You're forgetting the institutional investors. Do you know how many large institutions lost billions with the failure of AIG and FNM/FRE?

In addition, your average joe has seen his/her IRA and 401k dip precipitously. Many have pulled back on their investing dollars. Not all are as stupid as you think.

94 posted on 09/27/2008 10:45:37 AM PDT by what's up
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To: misterrob
3) Save cash and have access to capital for when you need it

This last one is quite iffy and, more often than not, a fatal trap if the "controllers" can manipulate inflation to cancel out the value of your savings.

That would be Congress, and their ability to "borrow" by manipulating spending.

95 posted on 09/27/2008 10:47:51 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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To: misterrob
Yeah right. ACORN/Dodd/Fwank/etc were not the ones buying the houses, they weren’t the ones packaging and selling the bad debt, they weren’t the ones taking shareholder assets or depositors money and betting them at the craps table.

No they didn't do it themselves, but they certainly 100% set up the conditions for the snakes to come out from under the rocks.

They put out a table holding unlimited taxpayer funds for good causes.
No, they did not put up a sign saying "Help Yourselves." But any idiot can see that that is exactly what the criminals did, and the legislation had zero effective safeguards or oversight to prevent it.

So yes, I can cay ACORN/Fwank/Dodd/etc are responsible.

They are still boldly denying any responsibility for the crisis.

96 posted on 09/27/2008 10:53:57 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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To: what's up
You're forgetting the institutional investors. Do you know how many large institutions lost billions with the failure of AIG and FNM/FRE?
The institutional investors trading on their own behalf can take their lumps. Unfortunately their investors have no control over the risk factor involved, and the taxpayer/investor has no easy means to monitor, control and fix that.

In addition, your average joe has seen his/her IRA and 401k dip precipitously. Many have pulled back on their investing dollars. Not all are as stupid as you think.

You're kidding, right?
The average Joe knows that pulling back means foregoing the instant 15-30% return on their sheltered investment, which according to you, they would rather pay in taxes?
No matter how big the dip, it pales in comparison with the compound additional taxes on the horizon if the "progressives" win in November.

Remember, the 40% of "working Americans", as Hussein calls them, pay no income taxes at all, and most of them vote; many several times.

97 posted on 09/27/2008 11:05:13 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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To: Publius6961; Logical me
When Hussein smugly and sarcastically mentioned the unbridled spending of the Bush 8 years, the obvious retort should have been:
Senator, even the most radical of liberals must be aware that the ultimate power to spend (or not to spend) is entirely the Congress'; Read the freaking Constitution!


Uh, right, good line, and true as well, but 6 of the past 8 years our guys have been controlling Congress.

The GOP Congress is not blameless in this mess. Our guys betrayed us by passing a bunch of pork and expanding government. By all means we should applaud them when they try to reverse this socialist deal, but I remember the craven collaboration with the spenders and wasters and I do not trust them as far as I can throw them.

Always remember we need to be heard, LOUDLY. Because despite the "friendly" letter after their name and state, these guys will screw us if there is benefit for them and we do not hold their feet to the fire. Vigilance, people.
98 posted on 09/27/2008 11:19:07 AM PDT by VictoryGal (Never give up, never surrender!)
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To: mathprof
This bailout plan is yet another nightmarish Bush socialist spending debacle. Kudos for the House Conservatives for telling Bush and his masters to shove it.
99 posted on 09/27/2008 11:21:59 AM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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To: Moonman62
“new tone in Washington,”

It was more like a new tune. Instead of "tax and spend" it was "spend and spend".

100 posted on 09/27/2008 12:15:02 PM PDT by Mad_Tom_Rackham ("The land of the Free...Because of the Brave")
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