Posted on 08/18/2008 9:35:10 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
With five seats on the State Board of Education up for grabs this year, education advocates say how children learn about evolution hangs in the balance -- and who voters choose could affect Kansas' national reputation.
A frequent flip-flop between moderate and conservative majorities on the 10-member board has resulted in the state changing its science standards four times in the past eight years.
Conservatives have pushed for standards casting doubt on evolution, and moderates have said intelligent design does not belong in the science classroom.
In 2007, a new 6-4 moderate majority removed standards that called evolution into question.
This year, none of the three moderates whose seats are up for election are running again. Only one of the two conservative incumbents is running for re-election...
(Excerpt) Read more at kansas.com ...
Which means what?
That they've abandoned their faith?
That they've moved or married and are no longer on that particular churches membership rolls?
That they're going somewhere else they like better?
Have these churches kept tabs on them and determined that they are indeed not going somewhere else?
What a meaningless statement. Churchianity is not Christianity. One can be a follower of Christ and never set foot in a church. It doesn't mean that they are not believers.
Salvation is not dependent on church attendance or membership.
I think the study was done because the churches perceived a decline in membership. In other words, a change from previous generations.
The study doesn’t report whether the kids ever come back.
The solution is obvious, isn't it?
Begin the process of privatizing government education. Let the Darwinist bullies go to schools they like. Let the Crevos go to their schools!
Get government **out** of the business of **forcing** the worldview of the biggest political bully down the throats of other people's children.
You feel this way because it’s your experience. Your world view...your ideology. Your reality.
But you have a profound misunderstanding of Christianity if you seriously believe that God “can” somehow be “removed” from anything, including precious secular govt controlled and programmed science classes. Especially in light of the fact that you seem to think there are “legitimate sects” of Christianity that buy into such nonsense!
And it’s not that I don’t believe you, I actually do, because they indeed are out there!
And let me explain: WAAAAAAY out there!
“Christians” believe everything from legitimizing lesbian priests to the Bible is just a bunch of fairy tales!
A secularist could be so profoundly confused as to what a Christian is, what Christianity is, how Christians behave, if they’re sinless, perfect, all-knowing and so on, that he wouldn’t be able to differentiate between a “variety” as you say from a cult!
Exactly as Satan would have you beleive! ANYTHING to hide the truth under the shell you’re not likely to choose. He does this to Christians, so I have no doubt secularists aren’t immune.
Now people can indeed focus on science (math, English, or just having a good empty-headed time thinking about Paris Hilton during their assigned hour of higher learning) and not even so much as experience God in any way shape or form CONSCIOUSLY during their studies; but make no mistake: a Christian, a person truly in Christ, the Holy Spirit and God the Father, simply CAN NOT be separated from Him and fully understands this truth.
In other words a Christian can not simply consciously dismiss Him from science endeavors. If a Christian person learns something new in science class, he would naturally think of God as it pertains to His creation, His beauty of design, His complexity of plan etc.
One understands the beauty of God’s creation more fully and understands we HAVE science thanks to Him. So to self-delude one’s self into separation from Him because it’s “science time” is frankly laughable!
It was often science class when I was MOST excited about God’s creations, His power, insight, plan, complexity, beauty...the colors in nature brought me closer to him than I EVER was in say....English Literature both in HS and college.
I was watching HGTV the other night and they were talking about going green blah blah blah, but interestingly they did mention that the colors occuring naturally in nature are more pure to the human eye, more brilliant, vivid, etc.
I absolutely without a shadow of a doubt know I’m not alone when I instantly thought of God.
My initial thoughts were NOT just shrugging my shoulders and thinking to myself....”self: wow that’s pretty cool...isn’t it just amazing that all these colors in nature are more vivid than anything man can create in a lab and it ALL came about by sheer chance! Well what do you know about THAT!”
Nope, believing in an omniscient God, I thought of HIM and it pertained to....dare I say it...SCIENCE!
Botany, biology, chemistry, anatomy and physiology, even pathophysiology simply furthered my understanding of Him and the implausibility of flawed explanations of matter appearing from non-matter, randomly, without purpose or intelligent thought...it just is leaves me empty. Doesn’t cut it, doesn’t pass the smell test.
Now there are Christians that are new to the faith, or what have you, but a Christian that believes science is somehow immune to Him, or they can pick and choose which parts of the Bible to accept and reject (Genesis, creation, etc.) This isn’t some kind of ‘fundy’....’bible-thumping’ narrowed view, this is just basic solid scripture and understanding, which btw isn’t for everyone!
Some people WILL go through the motions of Christianity to satisfy a spouse, a parent, even a child or to just “fit in”, and miss the truth.
You actually do have to be able to comprehend what you read AND understand the scriptures to gain insight into these truths. You actually have to have a solid true relationship with the one True living God of all creation!
It’s not about “promoting Christianity or religion or saving peoople, it’s simply about the Truth, PERIOD. As God would have us understand it.
There’s either a God or there isn’t and science isn’t somehow immune to this fact.
It’s also about helping people understand that HE provides purpose in our being and loves all of us. That what we experience, as Christians is purposeful, designed, structured, and not random. It’s about answers that jive with everything else we know of Him that we learn in other places.
Students aren’t instructed to shut down their beliefs in math class, or history, or English...but the secularists that demand their way or the highway in science class, incapable of seeing order in disorder, design in the chaos, God’s handprint on our ability to experience our being AND DEMAND OTHERS CONFORM to THEIR worldview is just plainly sad and wrong.
That’s so sad.
It’s sad for people but it’s also sad for America.
It’s also hostile to liberty, freedom and so forth, so sure it’s not only frustrating that so many people stubbornly refuse to freely accept an open hand from God in rejecting Him, but DEMAND of others to reject Him, mere children that may never have an opportunity to learn these truths at home. To not have such an insight into God’s creation during science too is not only frustrating, it’s heart-breaking!
It’s not about religion, or promoting Christianity, it’s about reality and truth!
Disbeleive till you stand all alone before Jesus, but don’t demand it of others because you’re simply incapable of seeing it is YOUR forced prostylization of DISbelief that is what indeed is being forced!
If God truly doesn’t exist and truly has no place in science, I don’t understand the anger and fear of having such an idea of creation presented for smart people to reject on their own!
“I realize it must be frustrating to be so convinced that you are right that you don’t see the harm in making other people listen to your opinion. Unfortunately for you, it doesn’t work that way.”
So your answer to that dilemma is that they be convinced it is YOU that is somehow NOT doing harm by INDEED forcing people to listen to YOUR opinion?
Well suit yourself, just rest assured tomorrow is a new day, and decent hard working NON extreme people are tiring of all the excuses and decisions being made without our input!
All I ask is for people to make their own decisions.
If Christians don’t get to decide what is or isn’t acceptable science, then the godless don’t get to decide what science is for Christians EITHER! It can’t get any more simple than that to understand!
Lucky FOR me this isn’t a closed ended situation!
I’ve always been optimistic that truth prevails!
Not everywhere, but soon enough the truth will be understood in that it isn’t Christians who are forcing people to listen to their opinion, it’s the godless who are forcing THEIR opinion on others in science class.
And as far as not experiencing side walk evangelists preach to movie-goers and being hauled off...there are dozens of examples of precisely that happening! Which probably wouldn’t bother me...it’s not cool and not Christian-like if it’s belligerent...you’re gonna go to hell, in your face...I wouldn’t want the Godless standing in front of church telling me I’m gonna be worm food and nothing more as my family and I left church.
The last one I read about was the woman merely reading the Bible to her child on a city bus and some people seem to think that a drunken bum or loud rap music is A-OK to hear in public...but scripture? OH NOOOOOOOO....the HORROR to hear scripture from a woman reading the Bible to her kid, ON A PUBLIC BUS?
SO they were kicked off.
So yeah, we have lots of churches, freedoms....and we’d prefer to KEEP it that way, thank you very much!
And last I checked, Christians get to vote, we get to serve in our military and fight and die for this country, so I’m CERTAIN we have input in what is or isn’t “acceptable” to be taught to our OWN children in science class!
I would suggest others get really familiar with the idea too!
Amazing...still demanding others answer to YOUR questions as if you and you alone get to set the rules!
Typical godless liberal arrogance!
You haven’t yet demonstrated a working layman’s understanding of science, religion, well ANYTHING thus far!
Perhaps studying up on a few things AND understanding that true understanding and debate occurs between opponents of equal footing...
for those in Rio Linde....INTELLIGENCE!
(design and otherwise)!
flood
I’ve got a much better idea:
the normal English speaking Christian people are in the majority here...I’ve heard anywhere from 80% on up are Christians.
So why don’t the minorty godless liberals be forced into private schools and pay for it, while NORMAL people don’t fixate on hating God out of every corner and recess AND reject the homosexual lifestyle and NOT coddle it as “normal”, AND focus on actual education and not socializing and emasculating our society....rejecting multicultural PC gobbeldygook, feminism, abortion on demand, demanding their culture be embraced by ALL Americans, wear headscarves in a shameful way as if females are second class citizens or property, etc.
and let the lunatics teach what they wish to THEIR kids and pay for it AND I’ll even cut them the break they refuse to cut normal folks and exempt them from paying local school taxes!
IT could work quite well if people would snap out of their comas, stop being mentally and morally lazy and realize our culture is gong to hell in a handbasket and they actually DO HAVE RIGHTS yes, even if they are Christians!!
The study doesn’t report whether the kids ever come back.
>>>>>>>MUCH LESS that they ever “went” anywhere from their faith in the first place!
Meanwhile you’re demanding factual examples from everyone else!?
Say, any chance you have an iota of working knowledge of the word “irony”? LOL
I’m beginning to validate this...it seems to me to be the same tired thread recycled over and over, regurgitated again and again by the same tired cast of helpless “intellectual” characters.
Lesson number one about their favorite tactic: “show me your papers”
NO amount of “proof” will EVER satisfy them!
FIRST demand proof they’re worthy and then SUCCINCTLY explain, just as no one has put these assclowns in charge of deciding what science IS, let alone who gets to teach it and to whose kids in public schools...BEGIN with having them prove they’re indeed worthy of even engaging and worth YOUR precious time in the first place!
Their take on science is bad enough, but their PROFOUND misguided notions of Christianity is simply stunning!
Favorite stunts are Goebbels-like repeating these lies:
their worldview is somehow religously “neutral”
NOTHING can challenge darwinism, it’s in the constitution!
even some Christians don’t beleive in creationism
anything that doesn’t march lockstep with their godless liberalism is somehow a sneak of religion into the back door of science class (and the wedge document is all the proof they’ll EVER need!)
and my favorite of all:
this drivel is a “conservative” viewpoint!
Somehow they expect us to beleive even Christian scientists are willing to reject Genesis when it comes to not only science class, but public schools, AND Christians understand “OUR PLACE”: that is... there’s a time and place for God....hidden behind church doors on Sundays!
I had no IDEA FR was so infested with posing trolls until these threads! :)
Scopes was prosecuted for teaching evolution, which was illegal in Tennessee.
I agree with you. But I don't think he needs the teacher to talk about those things in order to see them that way himself.
As for the rest: I'm sorry, but I'm really not into trying to decide who's a "real Christian" and who's not. I'm glad the Constitution blocks people who think they have a monopoly on "reality and truth" from making the rules for the rest of us.
No right, save for belief, is absolute. It's a philosophical impossibility for a right to be absolute when it infringes on the rights of others.
Freedom of speech?
What if I choose to exercise my freedom of speech to tell your friends, family, employer and local law enforcement that you are a pedophile? If I use my ABSOLUTE right to free speech to fabricate evidence of same?
Freedom of the press?
See above, but with ink.
Free exercise of religion and non establishment of a state religion?
My religion requires that I kill and eat your children. Who are you to oppress me?
Freedom to peaceably assemble?
I think I'd like to get a few thousand guys with Harleys to peaceably assemble on your lawn at four AM. You won't have a problem with that, right?
Freedom to petition for a redress of grievances?
I demand a two-hour meeting with the president to outline my grievances.
What qualifications do you feel were put upon these ABSOLUTE rights, granted to us by our Creator and enshrined by our founders in recognition of Natural Law?
All rights derive from natural law, and are constrained by the rights of others. This is the basic principle behind the social contract, which was a core tenet of the Enlightenment philosophy in which the Founders were steeped and on which they based the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. John Locke was the pre-eminent Founding Grandfather.
I do not subscribe to your belief that education cannot be without religious dogma, and that failing to teach one dogma is inherently teaching another. I believe that it is not only possible but desirable to teach that 2+2=4 without teaching that addition is a gift from almighty God.
And even if they do and are more qualified than many an evo, who appears to just be doing it as a hobby because they have no science background, they are immediately dismissed as not being *real* scientists.
I've actually seen non-scientist evos tell scientist creationists that the they don't really understand what a theory is because they are creationists.
Yup, that really flies... sure....
Don't forget about the part of using our own extorted tax money to pay for that *education*.
I started with Antartica. If the rest of this converstation is going to consist of you badgering me to change the subject we’re done.
Except that now through the misinterpretation of the Constitution and the abuse of the judiciary through litigation, those who don't believe in "reality and truth" and think they have a monopoly on it, are making the rules for the rest of us. Case in point from the article in this thread and the comments posted.
If the vote doesn't go the *right* way, ie. evo only in the classroom as determined by the majority of the parents whose own money is going towards educating their own children, then the elitist liberal faction will trot out the ACLU and file a lawsuit to force their viewpoint only on everyone else, so fast your head will spin.
It happens every time.
So what is the scientific alternative to evolution that explains the nested hierarchy of similarities and differences seen in the fossil record and in DNA? I don't care that much about credentials. Just show me what Louisiana has available to teach.
So... what would the deliberate exclusion of theism from education be called...
would it be “A-theism”? [/church lady]
Why do you assume 2+2=4 every time?
Why is the ratio of the diameter of a circle to its circumference the same every time?
Why is the derivative of e^x always the same?
Why is the mass energy ratio of e=mc^2 so simple?
Why is their a universal gravitational constant?
Why is the speed of light constant?
WHO made these rules? “They just are...” is not adequate.
Yes, I failed to proofread - their -> there.
Glory be to God for some attempt at making me humble.
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