Check out my unit (1975-78) the 2/1 Cav!
Posted on 08/18/2008 9:35:10 AM PDT by GodGunsGuts
With five seats on the State Board of Education up for grabs this year, education advocates say how children learn about evolution hangs in the balance -- and who voters choose could affect Kansas' national reputation.
A frequent flip-flop between moderate and conservative majorities on the 10-member board has resulted in the state changing its science standards four times in the past eight years.
Conservatives have pushed for standards casting doubt on evolution, and moderates have said intelligent design does not belong in the science classroom.
In 2007, a new 6-4 moderate majority removed standards that called evolution into question.
This year, none of the three moderates whose seats are up for election are running again. Only one of the two conservative incumbents is running for re-election...
(Excerpt) Read more at kansas.com ...
Hmmmm. That might take two red crayons...
Let’s see....you’re an authority on science, religion and now a Vietnam veteran too!
Again, like your assertion that 80% of kids leave their parents church...something just smells to high heaven in China and it has nothing to do with judging the olympics!
Ummmmm to assert that anything about militant Islam is intelligent shows me you (once again) know so very little about either subject!
I suggest working out your God anger!
(Seriously, there’s help out there! Don’t quit trying till you get it!)
Personally, I would like to see many less issues like these resolved in the courts. I am not wont to run to the courts.
IMO there does not have to be an alternative, scientific or otherwise, to look at evolution in total.
But this is not happening in the schools. If it was that would be fine with me, and that is where my stakehold would end.
Regards,
A hierarchy can be made of anything, so hierarchies seen in fossils only serve to help organize biology and cannot tell us what descended from what. Functional invariance handles DNA hierarchies quite well. "Supports" of common descent in DNA that have to do with postulated shared mutations or "non-functional" commonalities are not convincing in the light that we still do not understand what the majority of DNA does.
I admit being wrong about that. It was 88 percent.
You’re close...and it’s good to talk with people that can reason and stay calm.
Let me clarify if I may.
Christians understand that God can not be removed from science class no more than He can be removed from...well, anything. Not government, not anything. It’s silly.
If a Christian understands the Creator as an omniscient, omnipresent supernatural being that transcends our rather pitiful knowledge of science and every other discipline, it’s laughqable and non-sensical.
While there are extremists on the right and certainly Christians are not infallable, the VAST overwhelming evidence is that Christians are spending about 99% of their efforts merely fighting to preserve what’s being systematically dismantled and attacked in our culture across the board, not just in science classes, but within our schools, courts, media, etc.
But what happens is they struggle to bend over backwards to arrogant liberals who whine religion shouldn’t be in science, govt. law...pretty much anything and everything in public view....
It seriously PAINS people like Michael Newdow that people are....*GASP* allowed to say Under GOD in the pledge!
Within HIS EARSHOT!
THE HORRORS!
GO WASH YOUR EARS OUT MICHAEL!
I actually had a conversation with a liberal friend that joked how out of hand this Christian bashing has become...from godless secular liberals demanding no Christmas trees in schools, no mangers in town squares...no crosses in town logos...what’s next? She said....”rip out the crosses in Arlington because it’s public land”?
Little did she know there are proponents of that very idea!
Mt. Soledad is but one out of control bit of evidence of how unhinged the left has become with their God-hate disease.
The ACLU snuck into Georgia over one summer and DEMANDED the FEDERAL HOLIDAY Christmas be erased forevermore on Dec. 25th from our kids school calendars...lest there be a lawsuit.
That out of control fallacy about separation of Church and sate again. Sooner or later the supreme court will have to address this once and for all! It’s off the rails!
Kids in a Florida school were forced to sing O HOLIDAY tree, instead of Oh CHristmas tree...less all the foreign kids have to...
*GASP* wash their ears out too!
Sooner or later the supreme court will have to put an end to it because the Michale Newdow’s simply won’t let it rest.
Acknowledging Him freely, in public is our right. The 10 commandments on the portico of the supreme court building prove to me that Christianity influences our laws, govt and yes EDUCATION...that others reject it is their right, but it would be a serious infringement of MY rights if a godless group chiseled it out and said...there now there’s PROOF of sepration of church and state!
At the end of the day, your world is colored by your belief or non-belief in everything you do. IF js wants to pretend godless liberals can remain objective when it comes to science while ignoring the algoreacle, it is his rtight, but VERY few on FR here will buy such nonsense!
Godless drive-by libs prove beyond a shadow of a doubt they’re anything BUT objective journalists!
A hypocrite is someone that goes to the lab everyday and disbelieves all he sees around him from a scientific viewpoint, goes to Bible class and either sleeps through Genesis or rejects it out of hand and calls himself a Christian.
Yet 80% of scientists are Christian and somnehow don’t believe in creation?
Is that logical?
Maybe to godless libs it’s logical, but not to normal folks!
Same for the godless liberal that teaches science to a group of 5th graders that innocently ask “Why did God make mosquitoes”? and is admonished because “there’s no place for religion in science”!
NO WONDER schools are in such a tailspin!
Lunatics run the asylum!
Liberalism is a disease...godless liberalism is a disease on steroids!
A Discovery Zone
That's why something called the Wedge Document — although horrifying to America's secularist intelligentsia — offers a message of hope for Muslims. The Wedge Document is a 1999 memorandum of the Discovery Institute (DI), the Seattle-based think tank that acts as the main proponent of ID. In this document, the Institute explains that its long-term goal is “to defeat scientific materialism and its destructive moral, cultural, and political legacies.” Much of the fuss made about the Document by its opponents is absurd; it does not propose the transformation of the U.S. into a theocracy. But, as official DI documents point out, there is nothing wrong in expecting cultural impact from a scientific theory; Darwinians, after all, revel in the cultural impact of their own doctrines.By its bold challenge to Darwinian evolution — a concept that claims it is possible to be an “intellectually fulfilled atheist” — ID is indeed a wedge that can split the foundations of scientific materialism. ID presents a new perspective on science, one that is based solely on scientific evidence yet is fully compatible with faith in God. That's why William Dembski, one of its leading theorists, defines ID as a bridge between science and theology.
As the history of the cultural conflict between the modern West and Islam shows, ID can also be a bridge between these two civilizations. The first bricks of that bridge are now being laid in the Islamic world. In Turkey, the current debate over ID has attracted much attention in the Islamic media. Islamic newspapers are publishing translations of pieces by the leading figures of the ID movement, such as Michael J. Behe and Phillip E. Johnson. The Discovery Institute is praised in their news stories and depicted as the vanguard in the case for God, and President Bush's support for ID is gaining sympathy. For many decades the cultural debate in Turkey has been between secularists who quote modern Western sources and Muslims who quote traditional Islamic sources. Now, for the first time, Muslims are discovering that they share a common cause with the believers in the West. For the first time, the West appears to be the antidote to, not the source of, the materialist plague.
Ummmm are you serious?
I mean if godless liberals haven’t already proven beyond ANY shadow of a doubt how UNobjective they are in....
journalism (drive-bys)
law (WAAAY too many places to even wrap my head around!)
education (from kindergarten to hahvud it’s ruinous!)
(revisionist) history, use your imagination!
politics (DON’T GET ME STARTED!)
medicine (abortion on demand and yes I know it’s a subset of science but...)
you’re gonna suggest that somehow science is THE one exception WHERE GODLESS LIBERALS ARE ABLE TO SOMEHOW REMAIN OBJECTIVE...for the sceince??????
As far as I can tell godless liberals destroy everything and anything they get near!
Your dog just not only won’t hunt coyoteman....I’m not sure he’s even breathing!
Well then by your logic I suggest godless liberals destroy everything they touch, from journalism, to courts, to politics, to...
come to think of it...is there ANYTHING godless liberals have yet to wreck in this country, and in some instances completely beyond repair?
As far as your continually screaming for proof....documentation and the like....let’s back the truck up....
let’s get back to the TRUE starting point...again, before you demand proof of Christian scientists...how is it again common people are to trust that YOU have the ability to even comprehend such documentation, let alone pass judgment on others’ works?
I mean so far you’ve demonstrated so very little WORKING knowledge...I mean as in layman’s terms.
Well, the same physics used to date the earth and estimate the age of the universe made your computer possible. But I'm sure liberals made the Windows OS, so you may be right in general.
you mean like the drive-bys and the endless montage of “cone of silence” all day long from Brian Williams to hardboiled Hissy fit to herr olbermeister to andrea mitchell to....it just COULDN’T be that ObamaNATION was an empty suit....nah....he was awful because McCain CHEATED!
godless liberals are quite the piece of work aren’t they?
Well, if you’re talking about people came from giant purple snails and catch spaceships in a comet tail, I think that’ll all work itself out.
Otherwise, I would allow teachers to present the two mainstream theories...but in most basic terms, and NOT form the NEA (i.e. the liberal hypocrat) playbook. THAT is a broken mess and everyone knows it!
I’m for teaching either we and all we know of came from nothing, randomly, with no purpose or explanations OR we did not. As basic as I can say it anyway.
One can present pros and cons, why we come to such conclusions, I really don’t care. As long as both sides are presented and in understandable ENGLISH language. If a teacher is prosyletizing, that too will work itself out, much like the wiccan or Michael Newdow types. I like to believe most teachers want to teach, and not preach (either way).
But pretending the majority are to just remain silent and sit still and don’t bring up God because there’s “no place for Him here”...I think you’ll lose 9 out of 10 kids on the very first day of science class.
But come to think of it, perhaps this is the goal all along, I dunno...with the godless hypocrat lib NEA agenda these days, one never knows I suppose...from forcing people to accept the scientific normalcy of homosexuality, to criminals inherit evil in their genes, to global warming, it truly makes one wonder just WHAT the NEA agenda is these days.
But if there were ever an argument that “it’s not science” there are myriad examples of it taught in science classes each and every day in this country with this tripe.
Not in a judgmental way, not in a critical way, not even in a religious way but just acknowledging that children naturally have this wonder about origins that should be openly discussed and NEITHER side should be ridiculed. Present, discuss, debate, move on.
It’s going to pop up in the next set of lessons so just acknowledge it and deal with it as so many generations before us did and did quite well I might add!
On one hand they learn in church, home and virtually everywhere else there’s a God (or not) and all too often in school that’s something to either keep secretive or in science class simply not acknowledge at all!
And you’re actually threatened if God is brought up! That runs from sitting in the hallway to being expelled or even being arrested!
That needs to end.
It’s a travesty that it was allowed to fester and come to this pont in this country in the first place! If a kid learns that church and science are at odds, chances are the next generation of kids will learn to teach not with understanding but with further partisanship!
Present the information and let them form their own conclusions, and both sides will win and science as well as everything outside science class will benefit.
If science is so pure, it can withstand religious zealots as well as giant purple snails.
I don’t propose kids be taught ID, creation or evolution in a way that excludes the other or sooo much time is spent on the differences, but when a kid asks: “Why did God make mosquitos”?, HOW is responding: “Now little Billy, you were taught on the first DAY of science class that ‘that’s not science’ “? actually benefitting him scientifically or otherwise?
It’s not that he’s not focused on science or wants attention, but he’ll certainly STAY unfocused and seek even MORE attention if Mom and Dad are Christian, teach him about God, acknowledge Him; and then along comes the NEA gestapo to ENSURE further confusion on his worldview!
NO WONDER kids are doing so poorly in govt. schools....the liberal NEA agenda has taken it upon themselves to socialize, NOT teach!
Frankly, it’s not a debate about science...otherwise global warming wouldn’t have had a leg to stand on!
Americans are Christian for the most part.
Godless libs need to get over it already! By trying to drive us underground, you won’t change minds and make this a liberal mecca one day, if anything it’ll backfire and fellow extremists on the other end of the spectrum will do what they can to ensure the silly fears of a theocracy are MORE likely realized.
Extremism merely breeds extremism. And being so afraid of God in science is extreme.
Smething we can all agree on: there is something truly evil about my laptop!
I realize it must be frustrating to be so convinced that you are right that you don't see the harm in making other people listen to your opinion. Unfortunately for you, it doesn't work that way.
I’ve seen all the throw the baby out with the bath water circular arguments.
It works something like this...
All cops and criminals are exactly alike. They all carry guns and often use them. There’s not a bit of difference between them.
Same for nazi and Imperial Japanese troops...and U.S. troops....they carry guns and kill civilians....there’s virtually no difference at all other than their uniforms. Military is evil, no matter which nation it is!
Cowboys and Indians...
Christians and muslims....
sheesh if only everyone would just put down the guns, give up God, and sit around the campfire....and hit that bong one more time...
it must be some cozy ying/yang world liberals have insulated themselves in!
And yes, I understand there are some otherwise conservatives that are angry at God to the point of rejection...
peculiar...reminds me of Ron Paul...dude makes alot of sense in most of his arguments...
and then the dude gets to national defense and runs so far off the rails as to make you shake your head in disbelief!
Damn if there were just SOME way that we could extract Joe Lieberman’s understanding about national defense, give it to Ron Paul, switch that portion of their brains in fact, give Lieberman back to the hypocrats and have us a BONAFIDE conservative that is a 100% player!
Ahhhhhhh well.
Hitchens is like that....brilliant, but what notions in that noggin!
Ayn Rand...there are some exceptions to be sure.
It was enlightening for me to observe that there are some liberals....I mean HOPOELESS liberals that actually enjoy NFL football!
I mean who’d a thunk THAT!
These are the people that espouse we should stop kids from playing dodgeball in school cause a kid may get hurted!
No score keeping....can’t have one team gloating and another feeling all bad!
I'm sorry. I've asked half a dozen times for someone to outline the scientific alternative to evolution, the one authorized by the Louisiana legislature. There must be one, or why would the learned politicians have said it can be taught?
So what is the alternative to evolution that better explains the nested hierarchy of similarities and differences found in the fossil record and in DNA?
I keep hearing about design, but we have quite a bit of experience with human genetic designers, and their products diverge radically from the nested hierarchy. So do you have a designer in mind whose work looks exactly like common descent with small modifications between generations?
Redcoat1982
This account has been banned or suspended.
Thanks for confirming what we've all known for some time now. That's pretty well evidenced on these threads but the written confirmation is nice.
Tendency is not totality.
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