Posted on 07/04/2008 9:10:39 AM PDT by David
This is to summarize the law on two issues: One, Citizenship of a person, one of whose parents is a Citizen, the other an alien; and, two, eligibility of a person born outside the geographical limits of the fifty states to serve as President of the United States under Article II, Sec. 1, Par. 4 of the U S Constitution.
This is addressed to Obama's status if he was born in Kenya and to John McCain's status on the record birth in Panama.
I do not intend to address any of the collateral factual issues. I take it as a given that it has been established that the Birth Certificate for Obama published on the several sites of his supporters is fraudulent. I have assumed that it will be established factually that Obama was born in Kenya although that is a developing factual inquiry. I also accept the factual analysis with respect to McCain that he was born in a hospital outside the limits of the U S Base in Panama.
Both issues, with respect to Obama, are limited by this proposition: If he was in fact born in Hawaii, he is a citizen; and he is eligible to serve under the Constitution.
The current relevant statute is Title 8 of the United States Code, Chapter 12, Sub-Chapter III, Part I, Sec. 1401. The specific provision in the current code is now (g) of the current Sec. 1401. However, as set forth below, essential elements of the current provision are not applicable to Obama.
Currently, Sec. 1401(g) provides: The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth: . . . (g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years . . . .
This provision was modified to its present form in 1986 by Section 12 of Public Law 99-653 which substituted "five years, at least two" for "ten years, at least five".
Section 23(d) of Pub. L. 99-653, provided that: "The amendment made by section 12 shall apply to persons born on or after November 14, 1986."
Obama was born prior to November 14, 1986 (presumably sometime in late July or early August, 1961) so the amendment provided by Pub.L. 99-653 is not applicable to him.
So the law in place prior to November 14, 1986 provided that a person born "born outside the geographical limits of the United States . . . of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years . . . . "
Assuming Obama was born in Kenya, his mother, who was 18 at the time of his birth, could not have met the "prior to the birth of such person . . . five years . . . after attaining the age of fourteen". [Note: My copy of the US Code does not contain the legislative history of the "age . . . fourteen" provision. I have a 1990's copy of the code that says age sixteen; in my other office, I also have an early copy that says age twenty-one. I now believe that the statute in place in August of 1991 said "age sixteen" however the effective date of the change from 16 to 14 would be relevant if Ms. Dunham had been 19 but since she was not, Obama does not qualify even if the applicable law is in fact age 14 and thus we have not addressed that question.]
Thus, with respect to Obama, the answer is clear on the face of the statute--if he was born in Kenya, he is not a citizen at birth under the statute because his mother flunked the five years of residence prior to birth after age 14. Further, there is no doubt that he is not eligible to serve as president under Article II, Sec. 1, Par. 4 of the U S Constitution.
I also want to note that (g) continues with the language: "Provided, That any periods of honorable service . . . " which concludes with a separate effective date clause making the provision retroactive: ["This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date . . . . "] The retroactive date applies only to the "periods of honorable service" clause and has no application to the Obama issue.
McCain is a little more straightforward. He was born (we have not confirmed but understand from sources we view as credible) to two U S Citizen parents in a hospital in Panama not on the U S Military base.
Sec. 1401 provides "[t]he following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth . . . (c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person . . . . "
I understand but again have not confirmed, that McCain's mother met the residence qualification and thus McCain would be a citizen under that statute.
We have had considerable discussion regarding McCain's eligibility to serve as President under Article II, Sec. 1, Par. 4 of the Constitution and I do not intend to revisit all of it here.
The Constitutional eligibility question is separate from the citizenship question. Absent an amendment of the Constitution, Congress does not have the power to tell the Supreme Court what the Constitution means. It is doubtful that a birth in Panama, in the United States only under the Congressional fiction of the sovereign territory doctrine, would pass--and it appears (although again we have not confirmed) that McCain was not born in the sovereign territory in any event and thus does not qualify. Our own view, based on the facts as I understand them, is that it is likely that if the Supreme Court is faced with this issue, it would hold McCain is not eligible to act as President.
To summarize: It is clear law that if Obama was in fact born in Kenya as appears likely, he is not a citizen (absent a naturalization proceeding); and he is not eligible to serve as President. McCain, although he became a citizen of the U S under the two citizen parent rule, faces a legitimate Constitutional objection to his eligibility to serve as President.
“I take it as a given that it has been established that the Birth Certificate for Obama published on the several sites of his supporters is fraudulent.”
It is not a given. I take it as a given that Obama was born in Hawaii... Until anybody proves otherwise.
Did she have an off-campus apartment? Did her parents come to Hawaai for the birth of the baby? Was she living with Barack Senior at the time? Any rental records or Uni records available?
Great questions! I wish I knew the answers.
From what I've seen written the parents moved to Hawaii for new jobs. It looks like they went right after high school graduation, probably the summer of 1960. Ann's birthday was November 29th, 1942, so she was 17 when she met Obama Sr. and became pregnant.
I never saw anything written about her having a dorm room. I assumed that she was a day student, returning home at nights to her parents' home.
It's all very murky. Maybe someone has more information?
Hmm, you have some interesting info.
Did Stanley Ann live at home with her parents in HI? Anyone know where they lived? What job did her father hold? Her mother is still alive, and isn’t saying anything to the media. Would this change if Obama were elected?
These details certainly should be interesting to the general public. We tend to like to know everything we can about our presidents.
It helps to take time and really read things.
The statute has to do with IF HE WAS BORN OUT OF THE COUNTRY and only one parent was a citizen. It states in 1961 when Obama was born that that citizen parent had to have been a citizen of the U.S. for 10 years. Five years before the age of 16 and five years after the age of 14-16. Since his mother was the citizen and she gave birth to him at 18 she did not meet the 5 years after the age of 14-16. BUT IF HE WAS BORN IN THE U.S. it does not matter what age the citizen parent was he would be a natural born citizen.
I guess you think this was a ridicules waste of time also.
First of all, if it gets far enough, this has to be settled by the Supreme Court. Period.
“McCain is a little more straightforward. He was born (we have not confirmed but understand from sources we view as credible) to two U S Citizen parents in a hospital in Panama not on the U S Military base.”
I dislike McCain, so don’t think I am defending him. Here is the puzzle:
Folks out there insist McCain was born at Coco Solo Naval Base, Canal Zone, located on the Atlantic side of the isthmus.
If he was born on the Atlantic side, he could not have been born at Coco Solo because Coco Solo Hospital wasn’t built until ‘41-‘42. He was born in ‘36.
This would mean that he was born in Colón Hospital, Republic of Panama, and not the Canal Zone. (Colón Hospital is a short distance from Coco Solo.)
But a couple of years ago or less, I read here on FR his father was stationed at Quarry Heights, Canal Zone, located on the Pacific side (not Coco Solo). A couple of hundred yards past the front gate was Gorgas Hospital, our civilian hospital located in the Canal Zone. This means he would have been born at Gorgas Hospital, which was the nearest hospital.
Now this brings up another point:
If he was born at Colón Hospital, Panamanian territory, how could he have become a naval “officer” at that time in his career? Inlisted yes. Officer no.
P.S.
I forgot to mention:
Panamanian law makes McCain a Panamanian citizen if he was born in Panamanian territory (Colón Hospital). And no, there is no place one can renounce ones Panamanian citizenship if born in Panamanian territory. Born in Panamanian territory, always a Panamanian.
Hello David. Are you there?
Hello?
Buenas?
Pronto?
Hola?
Quién habla?
Time Magazine April 21, 2008 page 37-38
After she finished high school, her father whisked the family away again- this time to Honolulu, after he heard about a big new furniture store there. Hawaii had just beocme a state, and it was the new frontier. Stanley grudgingly went along yet again, enrolling in the University of Hawaii as a freshman.
The article goes on about a movie she had seen before going to Hawaii, (and Obama later saw it) "Black Orpheus"he then writes in his memoir, "Dreams from My Father, "that the depiction of childlike blacks I was now seeing on the screen...was what my mother had carried with her to Hawaii all those years before, a reflection of the simple fantasies that had been forbidden to a white middle-class girl from Kansas, the promise of another life, warm, sensual, exotic, different."
Might be worth seeing.
I appreciate all the research being done here and explanations and law as far as we can take it regarding this strange set of circumstances of birth.
I have to whine yet once more:
Obama is a candidate for the Office of the President of the United States of America and as such should have show full and valid disclosure in original form or certified copy from the proper authorities to guarantee he is an citizen of the United States.
He seems rather casual allowing all this conjecture to continue - does he disrespect the necessaries of the people and the Office of the Presidency that his papers be in order? That he is a qualified candidate for the Office?
The people should be demanding he offer validated proof. NOW
Some kinda leader that will make....
Good analysis. You’ve interpreted the law the way I have see it as it applies to Obama.
There is scuttlebutt that Republican operatives went to Kenya a while ago to find proof of Obama's birth and were successful having found a birth certificate as evidence.
index - thanks
Thanks for the YouTube link. I wonder what the whole movie was about that made Obama think it influenced his mother.
Her father worked in a furniture store. Her mother worked at the Bank of Hawaii and eventually, in 1970, became one of the first female bank vice presidents there.
It’s a remake of the story of Orpheus and Euridices set in Rio during Carnival. If you search the title Black Orpheus you will find a synopsis of the movie’s story. Maybe his mother was fascinated with the idea that black people could identify with an ancient Greek story. Besides the kids were kind of cute, the girl is very pretty and the guy, the romantic lead, is a good-looking black with a good singing voice. The story probably made her cry. Sounds like a typical teenage reaction to the movie to me—at least that’s probably how I would have reacted to it when I was her age. I wouldn’t mind seeing it, if it were ever on TV. Maybe when she met BOH sr. She thought he was going to be just like the guy in the movie and then found herself being “punished with a baby” and a guy that was tired of playing house with a dreamer.
Tell you what. If it turns out that Obama is ruled ineligible for the Presidency by reason of the circumstances of his birth, by any court in this country, I'll stand you a porterhouse steak at any restaurant you like.
-ccm
Tell you what. If I lose, I will settle for a hamburger at McDonalds. LOL!
Have you seen this?
It might be a partial answer to why the newspaper piece (on the other thread).
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.