Posted on 05/22/2008 10:46:31 AM PDT by ElkGroveDan
SAN ANGELO, Texas - A state appellate court has ruled that child welfare officials had no right to seize more than 400 children living at a polygamist sect's ranch.
The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled that the grounds for removing the children were "legally and factually insufficient" under Texas law. They did not immediately order the return of the children.
Child welfare officials removed the children on the grounds that the sect pushed underage girls into marriage and sex and trained boys to become future perpetrators.
The appellate court ruled the chaotic hearing held last month did not demonstrate the children were in any immediate danger, the only measure of taking children from their homes without court proceedings.
Probably from where the sun don't shine.
But that would have required an even higher level of legal proof. Rest assured that if the authorities had some, they'd have used it and done just that.
I see you didn't read the appeals court's ruling or the law. It has to be imminent danger, not potential danger years down the road, or even next quarter. Otherwise an adversarial court proceeding is required.
It's a matter of percent of relationship. Yes they will share some genes, even many, but not as many as father and child or mother and child. It might reduce the confidence in the results, but not sensibly so, I would think.
Well, if it proves that a 4 year old kid belongs to an 18 year old mother then there you go.
I'd like to see more of these cults busted up.
From the FoxNews story:
“Child-protection officials argued that five girls at the ranch had become pregnant at 15 and 16 and that the sect pushed underage girls into marriage and sex with older men and groomed boys to enter into such unions when they grew up.”
So much for the claims that girls were pushed into sex as soon as they reached puberty.
Only if they can get a premium for a set on the adoption market. Normally CPS policy, at least in Florida, in child-takings is to break up siblings. It makes it easier to "lose" children in the paperwork and much harder for parents to get them back.
"Cuz you weren't dressed like Britney Spears...you know, a normal adult..."
“I’d like to see more of these cults busted up. “
Do you mean religions, or families, or both religions and families “busted up?”
Yes, that would show nothing. When a 4-year-ols was conceived/born, the minimum age was 14, not 16.
I hate to be dumb as a box of rocks, but, is this what the parents sent to court? Or what the court determined? If it isn’t what the court determined... is that on this thread somewhere?
This as I understand it was an appeal by 38 of the parents [mothers]. They won which essentially shuts done CPS and the current child custody case hearings that were ongoing in San Angelo. I haven’t read the news this morning but this appeal decision can be appealed to the Texas Supreme Court but I don’t know if that has occurred or will occur.
Whatever the eventual outcome- I will not change my feeling that authorities overstepped here. By the time this ruling came down it was looking like CPS grabbed the children to use as leverage to gain evidence not only of abuse involving the children (their job)- but other illegal acts and to attempt to take the property (NOT their job) and assets of FLDS. I seriously am against such a strategy being used against anyone for any reason. If things like this are allowed to happen to FLDS- they can be used against any of us at any time.
There is a legal mechanism in place for CPS to protect the children. There is also a legal mechanism in place for other authorities to deal with any criminal activities the FLDS may or may not be doing, as well as seizure laws that must be followed before attempting to take property from citizens. I don’t want authorities using short cuts that further erode all our rights.
I know many feel the FLDS is guilty of serious crimes and that any means used to nail them is acceptable- that is not the theory this country was founded upon; and not a direction I want to see this country go.
I am terribly disappointed that so many are so willing to use any means necessary to “get” those they have issues with- not seeming to realize that if we allow authorities to trample the rights of others- our rights are being trampled at the same time. So many not only supported all the actions of CPS- but the relentless attempt to stop all discussion about that aspect of this case and the really aweful things many posters were accused of was way out of line for people that cherish their freedom, and want to preserve that freedom as much as possible. To call someone a child rapist, and other terrible names for wanting to discuss the legalities of this case was beyond the pale and apologies for that and more are definately in order from many posters on these threads. I won’t hold my breath- but decency really is called for here.
“They surely knew they were being watched closely by the authorities. They may have known or suspected that the sheriff had an informant inside. They certainly knew the legislature had changed the age of consent laws specifically to target them. They may have expected to be raided at some point.”
All true. The ‘raid’ was those ‘raids’.
Three different times the CPS went to the YFZ Ranch.
The first time, they took 52 children.
The next, was around 100, then finally, the bigshow when they took the rest.
The media just simplified it by referring to the whole thing as one raid, when it wasn’t at all.
Did they destroy evidence? Did they swap children with other FLDS groups in other states and countries?
They had the time, and the motive.
If Willie Jessop wanted to protect himself, and his holdings, to what extreme would he go?
For all we know, this could be just a struggle between Texans and ‘strangers’ over religion.
Or, a struggle between Texans and ‘strangers’ over land.
Or both.
What do you mean?
The decision rendered by the court of appeals is titled “Memorandum Opinion.” The last two sentences of the opinion read:
“The district court is directed to vacate its orders granting sole managing conservatorship of the children of the Relators to the Department. The writ will issue only if the district court fails to comply with this opinion.”
Tammy, to say that no matter what the court decides, you will always think this is wrong is no different than someone else saying that no matter what the courts say these people were guilty. People have that right but it should be recognized that it goes both ways. I’m in the middle here, waiting to see what the courts will do. Whatever the decision. To say that I do not cherish my rights is very unfair. I can’t enjoy those rights on the backs of abused children though. I have seen some posts (not yours) that actually seem to imply , so what if kids are abused...it’s not right but I’m not letting it get in the way of my freedom. That’s wrong IMO.
A victory for the people. This is a good decision.
>>Freepers REALLY disappointed me on this one, I gotta tell ya.
>I hate to say it, but freepers have been disappointing me for quite a while. Haven’t you noticed that when it comes to a story about any sort of confrontation between a private citizen and a public taxsucking bureaucrat, most freepers cant wait to go running to the defense of the bureaucrat? All the while trashing the private citizen or citizens in every way.
It’s true. I think part of it is that people get their news from the Bread and Circuses Noise Machine, the media. Just because you get it from Fox News does not mean it is true, people. The Lib media is bad, but in some ways the folks at Fox News are worse because they are perceived as more balanced.
But what is balanced about that cow, Nancy Grace, who didn’t meet an unproved accusation she didn’t adore? Or the sex-fiend Bill O’Reilly with his loofah and his baseless condemnations?
And no apologies from these people... just like the many times before.
Turn the TV **OFF** and open a copy of the Constitution. For America’s sake!
CPS 1
Children 0
It's not over yet. Not even half time IMO
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