Neanderthals Were Seperate Species, Says New Human Family Tree

Physorg ^ | 5-4-2008

[RinaseaofDs]

“So, am I right that no direct ancestor for homo-sapiens has ever been discovered? All that were conjectured as that immediate ancestor have been proven not to be?”

I think you would be, however the answer would be, “We just don’t know yet.”

I think that’s my biggest problem with the evolutionists - they keep saying, “It’s just GOT to be right, but we just can’t prove it yet.” At the same time, they denigrate ID’ers.

[brytlea]

I used to think that too, but apparently it’s not correct. Lions and tigers can produce fertile offspring, as can cattle and bison (to name a couple of instances). To me, the definition of species is a little fluid, since I KNOW I was taught (and taught when I taught HS biology) that if 2 creatures could breed and produce fertile offspring they were the same species.
susie

[MrB]

It’s just as bad in cosmology.

Hawking even had to come up with some sort of yo-yo theory to explain the expanding universe, since he is a hardcore materialist.

[2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten]

The liger is pretty much my favorite animal.

[toast]

the definition of species is a little fluid

This is the admition I was looking for. ;)

[joebuck]

"Hawking even had to come up with some sort of yo-yo theory to explain the expanding universe, since he is a hardcore materialist."

He also speculated on a totally goofy and unsupported "multiple universes" theory in a effort to deal the anthropic principle.

[pepsi_junkie]

Interesting, however there is some doubt about the idea that no Neanderthal genes made their way into modern humans. The evidence:

[aft_lizard]

The tame silver fox was never interbred with other canine species, it was selective breeding within foxes. The important proof of that experiment was that wild canines could be selectively bred into tame canines and that foxes contain the same genetic variations that dogs and wolves have.

[Wolfstar]

The Russians got very dog-like foxees by breeding for docility and tolerance of humans but I never heard they tried breeding them with dogs.

Yeah, the claim was made on one of those semi-educational cable TV shows. Supposedly after they got tame wolves, they wanted some more dog-like trainability and temperament, so they experimented with some hybrids. I can't vouch for their honesty, however. :)

[MrB]

Don’t get me wrong - Hawking is BRILLIANT.

But he’s handicapped by his absolute insistence on materialism.

If you have a blindspot that you absolutely refuse to explore, even though the evidence points there, you’re going to start having to twist yourself in knots to avoid that conclusion. And, I suppose the more brilliant you are, the more convoluted those knots are going to be.

[aft_lizard]

I thought that breed was from dingoes or jackals or some other wild dog.

[joebuck]

I agree completely and his materialist blind spot is what caused him to come up with something as goofy as parallel universes. His preconceptions are what keep him from being considered in the same league as Newton, Einstein, Galileo, etc.

[Wolfstar]

To me, the definition of species is a little fluid...

This is true, since the terms are all what we humans use to try to categorize genetic differences. As we learn more, we keep redefining the terms we use. For example, the more we learn about the quality we call "intelligence," we find that some animals are not as "dumb" as we once assumed.

On the other hand, we find that the sub-species known as Marxist/Socialist, colloquially known as "liberal," is dumber than many animals. :)

[Wolfstar]

I thought that breed was from dingoes or jackals or some other wild dog.

The Russian tame foxes? No, the Russians experimented with foxes to try to produce dog-like characteristics, but they didn't use any other wild species except foxes. The TV show I referred to centered on one man in Russia who was trying to come up with a tame fox breed that could do a better job than dogs at sniffing out illegal substances and explosives. His foxes or fox hybrids now patrol Russian airports.

[dangerdoc]

The russians bred tame foxes that ended up looking like dogs. I don’t remember them introducing dogs into the breeding program.

[reagan_fanatic]

[allmendream]

A species is a population of interbreeding individuals.

Two separate species may well be CAPABLE of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring but if they do not, and according to genetic research have not for several thousand years; they are a separate species even if you can successfully breed them in captivity.

[brytlea]

I think maybe they now consider dogs and wolves to be the same species.
susie

[aft_lizard]

No, not that one but the one were they kept intermixing different breeds for use in crime fighting and bomb sniffing. They found that it kept maintaining too much of its wild side from its breeding with whatever wild dog they used and had to breed in more passive tame breeds.

Here it is, they used a turkmen jackal for it;

http://europuppyblog.com/item/2008/03/russian-airlines-develop-a-super-sniffing-dog-breed

[brytlea]

Actually, tiger lion crosses can be fertile. Also bison and cattle (beefalo). I think they have changed the definition of species in recent years as information became known.

susie