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The McCain Conundrum
12/14/2008 | KMAJ2

Posted on 02/15/2008 12:18:31 AM PST by KMAJ2

Other than the socialist Mike Huckabee and isolationist Ron Paul, John McCain was at the bottom of my list for a preferred candidate. On the other side of the equation, it is looking like Barack Hussein Obama may overrun the ice queen Hitlery Clinton. What makes that scary is Obama is to the left of the ice queen.

I have read posts from both sides of the McCain debate, the 'if you don't vote for McCain it is a vote for the democrat' gang and the 'I will not subjugate my conservative principles and vote for McCain' crowd. Personally, I support the rights (read freedom) of everyone to make such choices.

For me, my vote will be guided by my own priorities. What do I value most ? What is most important ? The scale weighed on one side love of country and on the other love of ideology. My country always comes first. So as distasteful as it will be to vote for McCain, to allow either Marxist, Hitlery or Obama, to win is to sell out my country.

Is your ideology more important then your country ? Do you only love your country if the elected leaders are those who mirror your ideological beliefs ? If one is willing to hand your country over to leaders who are clearly worse than the alternative, then one clearly loves their country, but they love their ideology more. But that is the unique trait of a free people, they have the freedom to place that order on their priorities.


TOPICS: Philosophy; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: democat; democrats; hillary; liberals; liberalvalues; mccain; mcmexico; obama; rino; yayanothervanity
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To: John Robie
"intellectual capacity of a fly"

Cutting logic to my previous posts.

Nice ad hominem attack typical of recently arrived bots paid to post here. Sounds suspiciously like projection to me.

Your posts still don't rise to the level of Turing test passing and in fact are dropping in the level of sagacity.

Please go turn in your resignation to Soros and send out a more intelligent replacement shill.

161 posted on 02/15/2008 6:24:11 AM PST by Paladin2 (Huma for co-president!)
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To: kabar

Exactly my good FRiend,

And might I add McCain/Lieberman, Global Warming, pending economic disaster if this stupidity is even remotely passed.

They seem to conveniently forget that McCain has spent well over half of his career rubbing elbows with the Democrats and even wears their uniform.

It’s only until recently when he became a viable candidate that he has made the claim that he is Conservative. He must think that we have no memory or ability to comprehend his past record.


162 posted on 02/15/2008 6:28:40 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: Jim Noble

“You shouldn’t be on a discussion board - you should be at the range, practicing, for what you would call down on our heads.”

I’m quite confident that many of us are doing both.


163 posted on 02/15/2008 6:30:17 AM PST by antisocial (Texas SCV - Deo Vindice)
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To: Paladin2

Everything you have posted to me has been an ad hominen attack. I have stated my beliefs, and you attack me personally. I do not have any dislike for you and am sure you are a good person. But please stop accusing me of being a leftist becuase I will use my vote to prevent an Obama presidency.

You are correct that I should not have attacked you personally. But that is all you have done to me on this thread rather than my positions. All you have posted to me is that I am on drugs, I work for Soros, and I made typos.

I think I have stated my position on this issue, and you are free to vote or not vote in any way you like.


164 posted on 02/15/2008 6:35:48 AM PST by John Robie
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To: KMAJ2

This election is a conundrum for conservatives but it is going to be a disaster for the Republican Party. The problem is that McCain’s nomination is going to split the Republican Party and there is nothing that anyone can do about it. While some conservatives will hold their noses and vote for him in November as the lesser of two evils, others will not.

A few months ago, conservatives worried that if Rudy Guiliani were nominated, that conservatives would not vote for him in November because he is a social liberal. He would have been a bad nominee for the party because he would not have been able to unify and energize the base. But the same thing is true of McCain for other reasons. He is just as unelectable as Guiliani would have been.

Why is the party putting McCain forward as our standard bearer in an election year when our guy is going to run against either the first black nominee or the first woman nominee? Why are we nominating someone who is unpopular with the base?

Lecturing the base about how disloyal we would be to the country if we do not vote for McCain this fall is not going to persuade some of us to do so. I may decided to vote for him as the lesser of two evils but I am not going to become emotionally invested in a presidential election that I know our party is going to lose and I’m not going to be surprised or disappointed when we do.


165 posted on 02/15/2008 6:36:03 AM PST by steadfastconservative
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To: Jim Noble

At this point we really only have the Third Amendment left standing.


166 posted on 02/15/2008 6:39:19 AM PST by FR Class of 1998 (the long term solution to corruption is to starve the government of money)
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To: John Robie

No, you have not demonstrated out how McCain is anything but a liberal, how he is not a crook, nor why we should not take his recent history of actions as indicative of his expected future actions. Nor have you explained why you showed up here so recently and are not gainfully employed at this time of day (other than being piad to shill for McCain).


167 posted on 02/15/2008 6:40:48 AM PST by Paladin2 (Huma for co-president!)
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To: MortMan

How did McCain vote on Justice Alito? For or Against? How did Hillary vote on him? How did Obama?

How did McCain vote on Justice Roberts? For or Against? How did Hillary vote on him? How did Obama?

Still think there’s no difference?


168 posted on 02/15/2008 6:47:57 AM PST by Deo et Patria ("Don't taze me, bro!")
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To: samtheman

>>>There is one other point worth mentioning: John McCain is a soldier, a real soldier, not a phony soldier like JFnK, but a man who has truly served his country in time of war.<<<

So did Benedict Arnold. McCain wants to virtually cripple our intelligence gathering capability by eliminating water-boarding (which McCain falsely declared to be torture) and by shutting down Guitmo. McCain also betrayed us when he colluded with Russ Feingold to push through the most serious violation of the 1st Amendment since the Alien and Sedition Act of the 2nd (the John Adams) administration.


169 posted on 02/15/2008 6:48:21 AM PST by PhilipFreneau (The president cannot let a piece of paper by a bureaucrat determine what his actions must be - FT)
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To: steadfastconservative

You are correct,

There are so few “Republicans” at the polls these days and the Democrats out number them by over two to one, and the donations coming into the Democrat coffers rivals the National budget, while “Republicans” are begging in the streets with the homeless for food.

The GOP will need EVERY vote they can muster to even make this election just a mild land slide for the Dems.

This won’t spell the end if we do lose. (And brace yourself for just that.) It will be like the Carter years, very short and eve opening for the America that has slipped into a coma once again. The result was 8 solid Conservative years of Reagan and 4 mushy moderate Bush 1 years.(Which is why we lost.)

When the GOP slides to the middle it loses, I can give examples; Bush 1, Dole, Ford, and Nixon.

We either clean house and become a solid Conservative party again, or we become an amoral Socialist cesspool like Europe has become. I choose the latter.


170 posted on 02/15/2008 6:54:17 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

OOPS!

(Typo) Let me rephrase that to the “former”


171 posted on 02/15/2008 6:59:36 AM PST by PSYCHO-FREEP
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To: dellbabe68
Sorry, elected leaders sometimes need to compromise.

Not on the Bill of Rights, they don't, and nobody should be expected to reward them for doing so.

If you think that John McCain is the least vile of the statists running, and that this nation somehow can survive his malignant disregard for the founder's contract (and remain free in the bargain), then by all means vote for him. I respect your right to hold your nose and pull the lever for him, but I reject anyone's reaching over and clamping down on mine.

Mr. niteowl77

172 posted on 02/15/2008 7:09:21 AM PST by niteowl77
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To: FR Class of 1998

It WAS a compliment and would be a compliment to pretty much all pre-2000ers. Unless you are part of the small percentage who both ARE nuts and THINK you are nuts.


173 posted on 02/15/2008 7:21:05 AM PST by Einigkeit_Recht_Freiheit (Most men would rather die, than think. Many do.)
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To: Jim Noble
But to say you don't want America AS SHE IS TODAY, RIGHT NOW, and that you are willing to see her turned over to communists for destruction

I think you have ventured into the land of hyperbole now. The debate is about those who have created the wreckage we are now trying to fix and those who have a reasonable chance of fixing it or making it worse. There is no credible difference between John McCain and the two RATS available.

You could make a very strong argument that our failure to secure our own borders (McCain/Bush/Kennedy/Clinton/Obama) and our over-extension in a war with very foggy objectives is making us more vulnerable than anything else we could have done, and that McCain's gung-ho "nation building" will cause us even more grief. You can't win a war without defining our enemies and if you can't bring yourself to say Islam is the enemy than we have no business sending boys into harm's way. If we declared Iraq the 51st state, opened up the oil to Western bidding, declared a homestead act, and sent over missionaries, I don't mind a war in the middle east. But tinkering for global/corporate advantage with American lives and treasure is a neo-Con wet dream. I don't care if it's Hillary or McCain pursuing a losing strategy; I don't want to vote for a loser, and if you feel good about voting for a guy who seems to have active hatred for our constitutional rights, go ahead, but don't tell me it's an honorable compromise. It's not.
174 posted on 02/15/2008 7:30:10 AM PST by farmer18th (Conservatives who vote McCain are like abused dogs who keep licking their master's hand...)
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To: farmer18th
You can't win a war without defining our enemies and if you can't bring yourself to say Islam is the enemy than we have no business sending boys into harm's way.

You can say that again. Sun Tzu would be horrified.

175 posted on 02/15/2008 7:38:44 AM PST by FR Class of 1998 (the long term solution to corruption is to starve the government of money)
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To: Deo et Patria
It might interest you to know that John McCain voted for Ruth Bader Ginsburg, but as to his having two sons in the armed services, all I can say is that if I had to pick a commander in chief, I would pick the architect of victory, not a guy who had managed to get himself captured in his last great conflict, and one who is widely suspected of helping the enemy during his captivity and who displayed active, vitriolic contempt for P.O.W. families in the aftermath of Vietnam.

..and those aren't even his worse faults. Like George Bush, IT IS ABSOLUTELY EVIL to send men into harm's way without telling them that Islam is the enemy, and that is the source of the enemy's hatred towards us. If we don't want to fight a war against Islam, we shouldn't be there. Why do we take as allies (good guys) Saudis who won't let our servicemen worship Christ openly in Riyadh and say we're creating a stable representative government in Iraq, where Chaldean Christians now have more trouble worshipping than they did over Sadaam.

I had a friend who was asked to leave his post training Marines because he got too politically incorrect. His own son was in Iraq and he told him, over and over, "never trust a Muslim." Just this year, that advice saved his life, when a suicide bomber wouldn't stop shaking his hand and he ordered his men out of a building just before it blew. At least in World War II our boys weren't told to liberate the camps and leave fascism standing. In the cold war, we weren't told to "kill the communist, but love communism." We aren't defining the enemy, and boys are dieing because of it. Stop it with the McCain will fight the enemy crap. He's too stupid to even know who the enemy is.
176 posted on 02/15/2008 7:41:36 AM PST by farmer18th (Conservatives who vote McCain are like abused dogs who keep licking their master's hand...)
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To: farmer18th

I apologize. I had assumed that you were a person capable of rational thought and argument. My mistake.


177 posted on 02/15/2008 7:46:24 AM PST by Deo et Patria ("Don't taze me, bro!")
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To: FR Class of 1998

Today’s generations of leaders, if they had been charged with victory in Japan would have said, “Emperor Worshipping Samurai-Feudalism is peaceful; hold onto your militant ethnocentrism, your acts of valor at Nanking; we’re just going to do a little “surge tinkering” and “nation building” here and there.”


178 posted on 02/15/2008 7:47:03 AM PST by farmer18th (Conservatives who vote McCain are like abused dogs who keep licking their master's hand...)
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To: Deo et Patria

And I would like to apologize. I thought you were a person who cared about our boys’ lives. Evidently, you are a team player at all costs—even if your team is being managed by the Devil.


179 posted on 02/15/2008 7:48:57 AM PST by farmer18th (Conservatives who vote McCain are like abused dogs who keep licking their master's hand...)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

If the Republicans want to win, the party has to nominate someone who gives the base a reason to vote for him, not someone whose only strength is that he is not as bad as the Democrat candidate.

The Republican Party was foolish to go along with a flawed primary process, which allowed liberal states to vote first and give the momentum to moderates like McCain and Huckabee. Maybe this election will show the party the error of its ways.


180 posted on 02/15/2008 8:35:55 AM PST by steadfastconservative
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