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The McCain Conundrum
12/14/2008 | KMAJ2

Posted on 02/15/2008 12:18:31 AM PST by KMAJ2

Other than the socialist Mike Huckabee and isolationist Ron Paul, John McCain was at the bottom of my list for a preferred candidate. On the other side of the equation, it is looking like Barack Hussein Obama may overrun the ice queen Hitlery Clinton. What makes that scary is Obama is to the left of the ice queen.

I have read posts from both sides of the McCain debate, the 'if you don't vote for McCain it is a vote for the democrat' gang and the 'I will not subjugate my conservative principles and vote for McCain' crowd. Personally, I support the rights (read freedom) of everyone to make such choices.

For me, my vote will be guided by my own priorities. What do I value most ? What is most important ? The scale weighed on one side love of country and on the other love of ideology. My country always comes first. So as distasteful as it will be to vote for McCain, to allow either Marxist, Hitlery or Obama, to win is to sell out my country.

Is your ideology more important then your country ? Do you only love your country if the elected leaders are those who mirror your ideological beliefs ? If one is willing to hand your country over to leaders who are clearly worse than the alternative, then one clearly loves their country, but they love their ideology more. But that is the unique trait of a free people, they have the freedom to place that order on their priorities.


TOPICS: Philosophy; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: democat; democrats; hillary; liberals; liberalvalues; mccain; mcmexico; obama; rino; yayanothervanity
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To: John Robie

[how can people who supported Bush oppose McCain]

Bush is a big disappointment for the true conservative and has created the need for a new conservative party that will not run liberals as conservatives.


81 posted on 02/15/2008 4:39:11 AM PST by kindred (The GOP is now socialist also and is no different than the left. Fools.)
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To: ovrtaxt; smoothsailing

“Here’s a guy who pissed all over the Bill of Rights, has no political convictions other than convenience, has zero intelligence about the economy, is apparently willing to merge the US with Mexico, has stabbed your precious party in the back MULTIPLE times, is an emotional timebomb, old and cancer-ridden, and the best thingyou can say is ‘he isn’t a democrat’.

Sorry, I have higher standards in a leader.”

Sorry, elected leaders sometimes need to compromise. They need to be adults. You don’t give McCain credit for enough good he’s done. You’re pissed off and only looking at your own values not being accepted by the larger group in the country. So stay home, and make those values irrelevent. That’ll teach ‘em!


82 posted on 02/15/2008 4:41:20 AM PST by dellbabe68
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To: ovrtaxt

[No more. I don’t vote for liberals. We continue to reestablish the line of scrimmage farther to the left, thinking we’re advancing conservatism.]

You say well. I believe the left wing communists are now on this conservative website trying to make conservatives vote for liberals.


83 posted on 02/15/2008 4:41:46 AM PST by kindred (The GOP is now socialist also and is no different than the left. Fools.)
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To: AmericaUnited

[about those they claim put “party” over “principle”, but then will put “pet ideology” over country.]

Propaganda. Conservative principles are not pet idealogy and I think you know it.


84 posted on 02/15/2008 4:43:25 AM PST by kindred (The GOP is now socialist also and is no different than the left. Fools.)
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To: John Robie

I agree completely.


85 posted on 02/15/2008 4:43:28 AM PST by dellbabe68
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To: farmer18th

“I am seeing less and less difference between any of them. I hold Bush, Clinton, McCain, Feingold all responsible for what appears to be a blatant hatred of the founding principles of this country. They are all traitors.”

Do you see any difference between the Ruth Bader Ginsburg types on the Supreme Court and Samuel Alito and John Roberts? That’s a huge difference, and it literally means life or death to over a million unborn babies murdered every year in this country.

Do you see any difference between McCain and Clinton or Obama on the War on Terror? Be honest. McCain has two sons serving this country in the military right now. Do you think he is looking to surrender to Al Qaeda like Hillary or Obama is?

If you can sleep at night after permitting Hillobama to become president by sitting out, that’s your business. I couldn’t do it.


86 posted on 02/15/2008 4:46:42 AM PST by Deo et Patria ("Don't taze me, bro!")
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To: John Robie
Like I stated previously, how can people who supported Bush oppose McCain because of his views on immigration and campaign finace reform? It is a rhetorical question because there is no legitimate answer.

There's a very good answer, actually. It's called learning one's lesson. It's called after 7 years of biting tongues in the name of the war and loyalty to the party, watching the country fall apart in slow motion, wondering why the hell a Republican President acts with greater loyalty to foreign interests than American ones, 'more of the same' is finally no longer acceptable.

87 posted on 02/15/2008 4:47:06 AM PST by FR Class of 1998 (Government vending: Insert Paycheck and Press '4' for English)
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To: dellbabe68

You don’t compromise the United States Constitution.

He took an oath. Sorry, that’s non-negotiable.


88 posted on 02/15/2008 4:47:37 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: Deo et Patria

I see little difference between Ginsburg and Miers.


89 posted on 02/15/2008 4:47:53 AM PST by FR Class of 1998 (Government vending: Insert Paycheck and Press '4' for English)
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To: kindred
I believe the left wing communists are now on this conservative website trying to make conservatives vote for liberals.

Ya think?

They purged the Giuliani kool-aid drinkers. I wonder how long til the McCain purge.

90 posted on 02/15/2008 4:49:01 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: smoothsailing; pissant; cripplecreek
And I'm voting R, for anyone who has that beside their name, and I don't give a damn what their name is.

Hence the problem with the GOP. This is the mindset that brings us poor choices and worse, damaging consequences. The DNC no longer has super-majority exclusivity to group think. A freakin' chimpanzee with a low IQ can do this.

91 posted on 02/15/2008 4:50:02 AM PST by TADSLOS (Be a 3.6 percenter- Write in Duncan Hunter for POTUS!)
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To: spetznaz
"What is the option then, sir? And its implications?"

Well since you asked... after recognizing the manipulation going on, how with each election it gets more blatant, these globalists are pushed on us and we're pressured to "hold our nose" and vote for someone who betrays conservatism and someone we would never dream of voting for if they weren't pushed on us... we should take a stand.

We should not be part of the problem by allowing the Republican party to be incrementally destroyed. Because if they know conservatives will "come through" for them and support the candidate no matter what, the people who have hijacked the Republican party will keep on moving the party towards socialism/globalism - knowing full well that the trusty diehard "party over principle" types will pull the lever for whoever has an R by his name.

How to take a stand? Well, by no longer playing their game and simply voting your conscience - vote for someone who is conservative and who respects the constitution, and is not a sold-out liberal globalist. I realize that he is not popular on this site, but I'm voting for Ron Paul, as I said in this post, even if I have to write him in. I know a few people who are voting for Alan Keyes. Some people are writing in a candidate.

The naysayers will say, "It's a wasted vote, they have no chance to win." But then we're back to the same old game that is destroying the GOP and the country. At some point, you have to draw the line. What actually IS a wasted vote is voting for a liberal backstabbing unconstitutional globalist with an R by his name - based on fear and caving in to manipulation. THAT is a waste. Because it just continues the sham that has been going on, that is slowly but surely destroying the country.

What are the implications? Well, we may lose a short-term battle, but if conservatives and others who care about the future of this country take a stand and not allow ourselves to be suckered off a cliff like sheep, then we can re-group and either take back our party in 2012 with a true conservative/constitutionalist, or the other alternative is going to a new political party.

I know that the hand-wringing naysayers will say, "we can't do that." But if enough people are sick of how both parties have been taken over by socialist/globalists, then it can happen. But only if people make it happen. Apathy won't work. This is why the Paul supporters are so passionate and determined, because we can see what's happening and we want to restore the constitution and our liberties and get back to the basics, and save this republic, before it's too late. There are A LOT of patriots out there who are not going to go away. As much as the establishment hacks would like for that to happen. And these people are mad as hell. IMO, people who are not angry about what is going on in this country, have not been paying attention.

Oh... btw, I'm not a "sir." I'm a woman, but no worries, I guess my screenname doesn't give that away. ;-)

92 posted on 02/15/2008 4:52:46 AM PST by incindiary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVodI85NLMQ)
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To: John Robie
I quoted you:

""supposedly make McCain liberal"

Supposedly?

If you believe that McCAinis only "supposedly" liberal, you are on drugs.

Get it?

93 posted on 02/15/2008 4:54:07 AM PST by Paladin2 (Huma for co-president!)
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To: dellbabe68

You are absolutely right. If conservatives abandon the Republican they do nothing but ensure that our nation will be dominated by the left.


94 posted on 02/15/2008 4:57:38 AM PST by John Robie
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To: John Robie

Newsflash- the Republican party IS the left.


95 posted on 02/15/2008 4:58:42 AM PST by ovrtaxt (Member of the irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.)
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To: dellbabe68
He can speak for himself, and he did. And lighten up and get a sense of humor. Obviously I know he wouldn't actually vote for Charles Manson or Fidel Castro, but I did want to see where his line is drawn.
96 posted on 02/15/2008 5:00:12 AM PST by incindiary (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVodI85NLMQ)
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To: KMAJ2
I am hoping the R's get their clocks cleaned in november, on the scale of the 1976 election. Some really good things will happen:
  1. The check pant, east coast lib R's will finally see the light.
  2. The R's can then START a real rebuilding process, after some real soul searching
  3. Unity to fight socialism
  4. The RNC might think about how they have opened up their primaries(and ruined the party)

Contrary misconception is that President Barak can pass amnesty and socialized medicine. Never happen.

97 posted on 02/15/2008 5:05:10 AM PST by central_va (Co. C, 15th Va., Patrick Henry Rifles-The boys of Hanover Co.)
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To: spetznaz

Bravo, well said.


98 posted on 02/15/2008 5:05:26 AM PST by Deo et Patria ("Don't taze me, bro!")
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To: ovrtaxt

Giuliani was not a liberal. He really had no strong positions at all on any social issue; that’s not the kind of politics he practiced.

Giuliani was a strict law-and-order conservative - that, and not his social policies, are what attracted his constituency. I grant that it is difficult to understand exactly how conservative he was unless you had lived in New York City before and during his terms as mayor. His record, however, speaks for itself - he turned Sodom and Gomorrah (Times Square, previously porn/illicit sex capital of the world) into a vibrant, economic Disneyland. If that’s not what a conservative would want his politicians to do, I don’t know what is. He had no lack of faults but his record of actual accomplishment matches up favorably against anyone.

His constituency belongs in our coalition, and there are enough of them to make a big difference. On the economy and the rule of law their interests are ours.


99 posted on 02/15/2008 5:05:37 AM PST by FR Class of 1998 (Government vending: Insert Paycheck and Press '4' for English)
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To: ovrtaxt

Are you a Ron Paul supporter?


100 posted on 02/15/2008 5:09:12 AM PST by John Robie
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