Posted on 02/08/2008 11:15:39 AM PST by 84rules
There is NOTHING conservative about working with the Democratic nominee against most of your fellow conservatives in order to grow government, socialize medicine, lose the war in Iraq, tilt the Supreme Court to the Left, and make Roe v. Wade the permanent law of the land. If you are conservative and vote for the Democratic nominee or even just refuse to vote for McCain, who is by any and every objective standard, considerably more conservative than either of them, let me tell you what you are NOT doing,
* You are NOT doing the logical thing. When faced with a choice between a moderate who holds some conservative positions and some non-conservative positions and a liberal who holds no conservative positions, the logical decision is to take the moderate. After all, half a loaf is better than none.
* You are NOT helping conservatism or your fellow conservatives. To the contrary, you are helping liberals defeat conservative ideas. Isn't that what conservatives are saying that they're furious at McCain over? Well, who's less of a conservative: John McCain, who, if he were in the White House, would help conservatives win some battles and would help liberals win others or the conservatives who want to help a Democrat get into the office who will go against conservative ideas every time?
* You are NOT looking out for the best interests of the country. If you believe winning in Iraq is better than losing, if you believe balancing the budget is better than higher deficit spending, if you believe that having a Supreme Court that is tilted to the right is better than having a Supreme Court tilted to the left, and if you believe that Roe v. Wade is leading to the immoral murder of millions of children -- and the overwhelming majority of people reading this column certainly believe all those things -- then you are certainly not putting the good of the country first if you oppose John McCain in November.
Perhaps you should look up the definitions of "strategy" and "tactics", then talk to your military friends about the difference.
Supporting McCain is a tactic that casts shadows on the inevitable defeat of conservatism. It doesn't change the course of the political war, and has no chance for victory.
As far as friends in uniform, perhaps you should consider that a good many of us have worn the uniform. Some, like me, wore it during the 90s.
This country in not nearly as fragile as some believe it to be.
I don’t need to help McCain get beat.
He’ll do a fine job all on his own.
The whole point of “principle” is that you don’t fall in line, but rather you stand on principle.
You can’t change principle to now mean to fall in line. That is stupid.
This is not to “Deo et Patria”, just a general comment.
I again respectfully disagree when you say that Keyes has never pulled more than 38%. In the 2000 campaign, he went down to the Alabama GOP delegates’ statewide meeting and spoke to them. He won an outright majority in their end-of-meeting preference vote.
As for whether he can win the nomination, well, it will sure take a lot of talking by folks who largely agree with him with folks who don’t know anything about him. If you think this election is important, then I urge you to talk about Dr. Keyes to folks you encounter throughout the day. Tell em about the videos on http://www.alankeyes.com — and urge them to tell others. I don’t expect any help from the liberal media, and its clear enough that even much of the conservative media has been reluctant to even mention his candidacy too.
I hope all the conservatives here who can’t find a candidate who represents their views will take a look at Alan Keyes. If you don’t support the only candidate still standing who actually represents your views, well, are you really so committed to standing up for your views? Lots of folks think McCain is just a happenstance away from a capsize moment like Dukakis had or Dean had. I don’t know how Keyes may win, but I do know that nobody in the race except Alan Keyes represents my views on the important issues that face us.
Boy another lecture, great. How about admitting the truth. November will be a train wreck of monumental porportions, with Juan McDole at the wheel.
I second that in a big way.
There's nothing conservative or principled about helping a Republican who's neither conservative nor pricipled get into the White House either.
What's a fella to do?
Screw you John Hawkins, McCain, and McCain supporters. You said I was irrelevant. That I have no power. That I old and yesterdays news. Well, try winning without me.
1. “The Democrats have controlled the House for 46 of those 60 years...including a stretch of 44 straight years. The Democrats have controlled the Senate 40 of the last 60 years. The liberal excesses of the 60s did not cause people to rise up and embrace conservativism. That didn’t happen in the 30s either.”
What people understood about policy, government, politics, and the geopolitical situation came from a single, ideologically unified communications organ - the mainstream media consisting of the establishment newspapers, the major news networks, and their fellow travellers.
Our ability to channel a coordinated response to elected officials to any sort of unreasonable policy has increased many, many times.
Ronald Reagan allowed illegal immigrant amnesty in the 80’s too. There was no internet, no real conservative press, or any other medium through which a conservative base could immediately and effectively express some sort of conservative opposition to that sort of policy.
Before there were really ‘conservatives’ Nixon called it ‘The silent majority’. They were silent precisely because they had no access to any other outlet but the ballot box. Canny guy that he was, he banked on that constituency being there and it paid off.
Today, all of these political factions are much more accurately measurable. That’s a good and a bad thing, because as a result we are far more disposed to do what pleases the screaming idiots in large constituencies than we are to do the things that may pinch today, but put us in secure stead tomorrow.
In 2007, illegal immigration amnesty failed, when the entire weight of the political and commercial special interest establishment was behind the effort on both sides of the aisle. As long as politicians have egos, their excesses are more prone to momentary pause than probably ever before. Hell, even the moonbats were against amnesty and let their people have it too.
“2. “with control of all three branches, what will these people do? The question is, how much damage can/will they do? Lots. And, the effects won’t be realized, particularly by the masses, for years to come. So, a counter argument to the one you advanced is that during the four years we’re “punishing” the GOP and waiting for failure, we’re risking the implementation of terrible policies that might never be eliminated. For example, the composition of the Court is at risk. How long would it take to reverse the damage done there, decades? Think of all the BS laws, entitlements, etc. on the books. Tell me, after the country realized how bad the dems were, when were these things removed? Answer: Never.””
I think that four or eight years ago, you’d probably be right - we’d be seen as punishing the GOP. My argument is that the GOP, as we used to know it, is gone.
It’s now, essentially, the Social Democratic Party in the same style you’d see today in Germany: Policy conservative, socially liberal sorts - and they work with a coalition of other political interests to maintain a government administration.
Conservatives have been ejected from the party. It’s not something you had a vote on either, it happened, it’s done, and we can go cry a little.
However, it’s not all that bad a thing, because we at least have a good product, and we can set a very consistent set of expectations around what you get when you hire a real conservative (let’s call them Reaganites, since everyone seems to be a conservative nowadays).
What you HAVE to realize, and there is AMPLE evidence of this in the current Congress, is that the LEFT has fractured too. Democrats do not vote monolithically, and their freshmen class (Heath Schuler’s a pretty good object example) is decidedly right of center in that party. Another putrid example on our side is that hideous Gang of 14. Zell Miller is a perfect example of the degree of drift both parties had to acquiesce to in order to operate under a ‘Big Tent’.
The expression ‘Big Tent’ is a watered down vernacular for ‘Coalition’. Both sides have their ‘Tents’.
Bottom line: If you are going to get a liberal no matter who you vote for in November, make sure that the winner has a D next to their name, so their ‘brand’ can take the shrapnel. In reality, because of the coalitions, their ability to really do damage going left is going to be hampered by their ability to dominate all of their competing political factions and agendas.
McCain winning in 2008 is a guarantee of 4 years of McCain’s bad policies AND a guarantee of 8 years of President Obama beginning in 2012.
And to listen to some of them, he's not only the "logical" choice, he's become the savior of the nation and Western Civilization; they've picked up his megalomaina in a matter of four days and are now preaching to me like I'm guilty of high treason AND blasphemy. I thought Obama had a cult following, but I'd have to say that the Obamaniacs have got nothing on the "support McCain or you'll kill this puppy, our soldiers, the American Way of Life, every human on the planet and even the low cost of salsa" camp.
If they want to vote for the SOB, that's fine; I consider the man unbalanced and truly sinister. If they can stomach him, they can have him. They can start their own religion for all I care. But if they continue to demonize me for opting out of supporting their geopolitical messiah, I will be perfectly willing to scorch the earth to the greatest extent that I can.
Mr. niteowl77
GOP meetings don’t count. If you want to win elections you need to win ELECTIONS, votes of the people, not some “end-of-meeting preference” real votes of normal non-connected people. The best he’s done in that was 38% and that was his first time out since then he’s been in the mid 20s on a good vote.
If he could win the nomination he’d actually have delegates by now. Super Tuesday has passed and he’s got nothing. It’ll take a lot more than just talking to turn Keyes into a real candidate with a real chance of winning the nomination, it would take a miracle that would include half a dozen key deaths. His campaign, again, like so many times before, is a complete non-starter. He can’t win, he can’t anything, he’s never even gotten remotely close, and he never will. Keyes supporters need to accept reality, he’s a smart guy who will never win election to any office ever under any circumstances. Maybe that’s a bad statement about America but that’s the reality we live in.
If the Conservatives think that everything must go exactly their way, they can form their own Party, like the Liberatarian and feel good about their ideological purity while conceding all the power to the opposition.
The Conservatives should be very happy that at least they blocked Rudy G. from the nomination and take what they have in McCain and look forward to 2012.
“It’s a simple question of the lesser evil.”
No it isn’t. When you give your vote away in this manneryou are owned and controlled, period.
It’s really rather sad that a guy who has done such destruction to the first amendment is the LESSER evil. At any rate, that’s more evil than I care to get involved with at all.
“It’s a simple question of the lesser evil.”
No it isn’t. When you give your vote away in this manneryou are owned and controlled, period.
It’s really rather sad that a guy who has done such destruction to the first amendment is the LESSER evil. At any rate, that’s more evil than I care to get involved with at all.
Yes, this does make sense. I think that everyone should chill out especially on TV and radio. The dems are enjoying this Republican arguing and complaining way too much. Look at the glee on Colmes face each evening. Let’s take that pleasure away from them and get on with making sure Republicans take back seats in the Senate and House. We can stop them there with a dem in the WH.
I agree. I don’t like McCain either but let’s get real. Our highest priority is our safety.
That’s the perfect example of what’s wrong with this country and the GOP, and why a man like McCain could be the Republican front runner.
Our first priority should be freedom. While safety is important, terrorists aren’t going to destroy this country. Leftists, including those in the Republican party, will.
Thread title. And my response?
There is nothing conservative or principled about voting against conservatism and principles.
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