McCain says Clinton would make a great President. So Reach out to the other side like Maverick John McAmnesty did.
Posted on 02/08/2008 11:15:39 AM PST by 84rules
There is NOTHING conservative about working with the Democratic nominee against most of your fellow conservatives in order to grow government, socialize medicine, lose the war in Iraq, tilt the Supreme Court to the Left, and make Roe v. Wade the permanent law of the land. If you are conservative and vote for the Democratic nominee or even just refuse to vote for McCain, who is by any and every objective standard, considerably more conservative than either of them, let me tell you what you are NOT doing,
* You are NOT doing the logical thing. When faced with a choice between a moderate who holds some conservative positions and some non-conservative positions and a liberal who holds no conservative positions, the logical decision is to take the moderate. After all, half a loaf is better than none.
* You are NOT helping conservatism or your fellow conservatives. To the contrary, you are helping liberals defeat conservative ideas. Isn't that what conservatives are saying that they're furious at McCain over? Well, who's less of a conservative: John McCain, who, if he were in the White House, would help conservatives win some battles and would help liberals win others or the conservatives who want to help a Democrat get into the office who will go against conservative ideas every time?
* You are NOT looking out for the best interests of the country. If you believe winning in Iraq is better than losing, if you believe balancing the budget is better than higher deficit spending, if you believe that having a Supreme Court that is tilted to the right is better than having a Supreme Court tilted to the left, and if you believe that Roe v. Wade is leading to the immoral murder of millions of children -- and the overwhelming majority of people reading this column certainly believe all those things -- then you are certainly not putting the good of the country first if you oppose John McCain in November.
On the other hand, the split between Bush and Perot in ‘92 may have given us Clinton but also gave us a Republican controlled Congress in ‘94, which gave us a budget surplus and welfare reform.
I understand, Yaelle. There does seem to be a Civil War going on all over the GOP right now and the sooner we release the anger and pent up frustrations, the better it will be for us going into the Convention and the better it will be for local campaigns as well.
I suspect that as time goes on, most of those who are right now saying they will never vote for John McCain will have a change of heart. It is true that we could fight a Dem President’s legislative agenda or judicial appointments, but we could not fight a Dem President’s Executive Orders or butchering of the military. I think those issues will end up tipping the scales before November.
Thx, Bee. You’re right: The choice before us is gonna be the penultimate example of “pain for gain.” If I decide not to vote for McCain, I refuse to accept a one of the guilt trips that will be thrown my way.
MM (in TX)
And this is precisely what John McCain has done for many years now, work with the Democrats against conservatives. From McCain-Feingold to shamnesty to wanting to close Gitmo, there is 'NOTHING conservative' about McCain.
Why is it OK for McCain to work with Democrats against conservatives, but it's not OK for Republicans whom he has alienated and shafted to work with Democrats against him? What goes around comes around, John.
McCain and his old guard RINO ilk have turned the Republican Party into a parallel party with the Democrats anyway. And trying to unite the party around fear is a tactic that's only going to hurt him more. McInsane's only chance is to change, and change for REAL. He had better start signing pledges and making promises in clear, black and white terms, promises that he will be a true conservative if elected, and APOLOGIES for being a RINO in the past. Otherwise, he will lose in a landslide, and deservedly so.
“easily influenced?”
No, but willing to reexamine my position, think critically, and chart the course that makes the most sense.
There’s tons of things wrong with McCain and a million reasons why I will hate to vote for him, but there’s one reason that outweighs those - the alternative is worse. The decision comes down to a choice between the following:
1. “Punish” the GOP in hopes that they’ll get a message and put forth only true pubs/cons and allow the country to suffer under Hillary for a few years so that the people wake up and elect the right candidate in 2012 or
2. Accept this choice in hopes of minimizing the damage, gaining ground on points of mutual agreement (i.e. Iraq/Cutting spending), and preventing the further veering to the left in this country. Preventing the liberals from seizing the Supreme Court and having four years to irreversible screwing up this country.
goldfinch put it best,
“On the contrary, you are the one who is short-sighted. You assumption that giving the Democrats complete control of the government would result in Americans rising up and embracing conservatives is not backed up by history.
I am 60 years old. The Democrats have controlled the House for 46 of those 60 years...including a stretch of 44 straight years. The Democrats have controlled the Senate 40 of the last 60 years. The liberal excesses of the 60s did not cause people to rise up and embrace conservativism. That didn’t happen in the 30s either.
The war against liberalism has to be fought every day and on every battlefield. From a historical perspective, ceding the battlefield does not work.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1967250/posts?page=38#38
Similarly, in response to -
“At least if Hillary get the WH we can blame her and the liberal Democrats for ruining our country and then get a CONSERVATIVE in the WH in 2012.
20 posted on 02/08/2008 11:55:10 AM PST by houstonman58”
I said this,
“That’s what I was thinking too, but another thing to consider is this - with control of all three branches, what will these people do? The question is, how much damage can/will they do? Lots. And, the effects won’t be realized, particularly by the masses, for years to come. So, a counter argument to the one you advanced is that during the four years we’re “punishing” the GOP and waiting for failure, we’re risking the implementation of terrible policies that might never be eliminated. For example, the composition of the Court is at risk. How long would it take to reverse the damage done there, decades? Think of all the BS laws, entitlements, etc. on the books. Tell me, after the country realized how bad the dems were, when were these things removed? Answer: Never.
40 posted on 02/08/2008 12:13:31 PM PST by enough_idiocy”
Again, there are tons of reasons why I will not enjoy voting for McCain, but there is one reason I will do so - to prevent people like Hillary, Obama, Reid, and Pelosi from screwing up this country far worse and at a quicker pace than McCain can/would/might and without gaining anything in return.
I don’t think either position is perfect and I respect people who go the other way with it. Perhaps my mind will change again as I listen to opposing arguments and take in new info. I think that’s intelligent, not easily influenced.
Keyes can’t win the nomination. Keyes is an interesting person, a smart person, but he’s one of the worst candidates to ever find a way to get national attention. He simply lacks all of the necessary skills to run for office, he really needs to set his sights lower and win a couple of small elections first to learn how it’s done. So far the best he’s ever pulled is 38%, that’s simply not a candidate with a chance of winning the presidency.
“Sorry, No vote for John “Traitor to the Conservative Cause” McAmnesty!”
I totally understand and empathize with your feelings about McCain. I had nearly decided to not vote for McCain and only vote for congressional races, but then I heard something on our local radio talk station that really made me think, and then change my mind.
It was a conservative local talk show and the two hosts were discussing the very thing all of conservatives have been talking about: to vote or not to vote.
One of the hosts asked the other what she was going to do. Her reply was, “For me, there is no choice in the matter. I have two brothers in the military, in Iraq. Whenever I talk to them they say to me ‘Don’t forget about us over here when you vote - vote for the candidate that will do the best job of taking care of the military.’ We owe the men and women serving in our armed forces to vote for the candidate that will do what is right for them. Therefore, I have to vote for McCain. The other two will gut the military budget and make decisions that will lead to more deaths of our soldiers.”
After listening to that, it was clear to me also that, as much as I dislike many of McCain’s positions, he will do a better job with our military. I’ve decided I have to vote for him. Our soldiers around the world are depending on us.
“how do we pressure the GOP into giving us actual, conservative candidates?”
One of the problems shown in this election cycle was that people other than real republicans were able to vote in some of the primaries.
There is no hurry! There is no hurry to get behind McCain! We can discuss our thoughts at this point. Who wants us to jump into McCain’s hot tub tonight? The MSM, who got us into this mess. I believe we need to step back and analyze both where we went wrong and how to fight the MSM better during election seasons.
How DO we reach the politically inactive conservatives and Republicans?? Our sisters, uncles, coworkers, and friends who might read the front page of a newspaper once a week, or see 20 minutes of CNN/Fox News a night, or, worse, get all their news from Jay Leno??
Houston, and everywhere else in the country, we DO have a problem.
I wish McNutCase supporters would chill for a few days. You are making a bad situation much worse.
Thanks for responding, I did find that comment a bit ironic and still steaming fresh too. ;-)
at the rate things are progressing we would be lucky to even get one of the three prizes in November, The House.. and I believe that should be our primary focus, not trying to redefine McCain’s woeful record when examined more closely.
but it is a free country and folks can waste their rhetoric and share their reasoning as they so choose.
I just find it ironic that so many who readily embrace conservatism are also so readily willing to turn their backs on it as well if it appears it is the expedient thing to do.
it’s the old Just Win Baby , at any cost..
I personally don’t buy it. It has little to do with principle,, but with all the exterior influences including foreign intervention and the moronic media banging the drums and the majority of the pack so easily swayed, what can one expect?
I’m OK with disagreeing with politicians on some issues. I understand the world of politics enough to know that private citizen me wouldn’t agree with politician me (assuming that transformation ever happened) 100% of the time. The question that comes up is how many issues and how big are they. For me Campaign Finance Reform is HUGE, it’s a big time non-starter. Living in AZ when he made that a top goal of his career I swore off voting for him, I always hoped it would just be a Senate thing, unfortunately it looks like it’s going to be a president thing. Unless he can give a serious and believable explanation on how he’s realized CFR was a stupid thing to do and he’s making a priority of reversing I cannot vote for him.
McCain simply is NOT better than the alternative, at this point in his career there’s no functional difference between him and the alternative. He agrees with Hillary and Obama a hell of a lot more than he does with me.
Tell that to Mrs. Ronald Reagan.
McCain says Clinton would make a great President. So Reach out to the other side like Maverick John McAmnesty did.
Great new RINO slogan, but I'll pass this time.
Don't listen to McCain's promises of the moment: observe his actions.
This is the man John McCain chose to be his "Hispanic Outreach Director." Hernandez is a verified traitor. Born in Dallas he decided as an adult to become a dual-national Mexican citizen. His last job was serving as Mexican President Vicente Fox's "American Reconquista Director."
Hernandez believes all Mexicans and Mexican-Americans in the USA should become dual citizens and consider themselves Mexicans first, "to the 8th generation."
The "New American Pioneers" proclaimed in his book are the illegal alien invaders he urges to become settlers in the USA.
And this is the man McCain chose for his "Hispanic Outreach Director." In the past week he was asked about this choice, and he said he chose Hernandez because he agrees with his positions.
Yet out of the other side of his mouth he says "He has heard us" and he will "Secure the border first."
Juan Shamnesty McCain is precisely a treacherous liar.
So how is supporting Hillary or Obama loyalty to the Republic?
Exactly! Burning the grass makes it come back stronger the next year. Hillary or Obama will indeed "burn the grass" of American politics and make it ripe for some true conservative leadership again.
Yeah, but the damage they inflict in those 4 years may not be un-do-able.
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