Posted on 12/09/2007 12:49:26 PM PST by aomagrat
Edited on 12/09/2007 12:59:09 PM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]
[I waited 45 seconds and actually posted something substantial--Ed.]
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — At least four people were shot outside of a Colorado Springs church on Sunday, but it was not immediately known whether the shootings were related to an earlier shooting about 70 miles away, authorities said.
On somewhat of a tangent, myself . . .
All my professional life, folks have . . . pontificated about teens etc.
Thankfully, research now affirms my own conclusions . . .
Teen years do NOT have to be traumatic for teens or parents of teens.
Quite a number of parents succeed in rearing children who, when they reach their teen years still manage quite an agreeable unfolding maturing relationship that includes a lot of growing evolving freedom for the teens matched to their evolving maturity—all with relatively little to no great emotional conflicts and outbursts.
I realize many parents do not achieve such a wonderous state.
My bias is that quality teen years relationships between teens and parents is set-up in the bonding attachment of the first 8 years of life.
Add to that a well managed pre-teen period, the teen years should be fine.
But that requires LOTS OF TIME, CARING, HEALTHY AFFECTION, INTENSE ACTIVE LISTENING ETC. all along the way.
Would your experience with your teens affirm my conclusions and observations, or not?
I think you make some valid points well.
I do think you leave out the degree of
ABSOLUTE RAGE AND HOPELESSNESS
that he evidently had to cope with on a daily basis from an early age.
He didn’t ask for that. He didn’t cause that.
But, yeah, he persistently made self-destructive choices in a list of ways. But he didn’t come out of the womb that way.
I guess my 30 years of counseling experience says to me . . .
the kid is NOT 100% lying about 100% of the alledged abuse.
That’s just not logical or probable.
There’s too much of a ring of truth to a lot of his description of his childhood—EVEN SUBTRACTING OUT 90%.
And I suspect that a LOT MORE than 10% was true.
He didn’t want to get better from his time in the church (whatever real or imagined wrongs were done to him). He wanted to be mad. Wanted to be right. Wanted to be in power and in control over those he felt had been over him.
= = =
I think much of what you write about wanting to be mad etc. was true.
However, I do believe that HE DESPERATELY WANTED TO BE BETTER. Mother’s EVIDENT/REPORTED/ALLEGED perfectionism set him up to be hopeless. HE COULD NEVER measure up regardless.
And, every where he turned in the home, he was EVIDENTLY provoked to wrath routinely, constantly.
I know what the toll of such treatment is like from more than just my clients.
IF 10% of his allegations about mom are correct, she was AN EXPERT IN CRAZYMAKING.
Hopefully—No doubt—very unwittingly.
I wouldn’t doubt there’s exaggeration . . . the
DEGREE is in question.
I say again . . . if 10% of his allegations are true . . . his personal perceived existential reality was hellish.
imho, you make some good observations and speculations, conjectures.
However, I still disagree about his sense of self.
I believe he developed a self that was perhaps schizoid somewhat in earlier slipping back and forth between compliance and outraged rebellion at always failing to measure up.
I think the latter evolved into THE REBEL reasonably early on though cloaked behind a lot of pretense and role playing . . . understandably.
I think the ENRAGED REBEL became his identity relatively early on . . . but with mixed results and with a varying degree of stability.
Sorry, I don’t buy the
mere “poor parenting choices.”
Poor parenting choices have
NEVER
in my 30+ years of counseling produced such a product as a child.
NEVER.
not ever, not once.
Bias and lack of research are poor survival habits.
Ignoring warehouses full of solid evidence is, at some point, inexcusable.
It sounds like he needed a cult deprogrammer. Where do you find a good one? How much do they cost? How do you find one who won't destroy the core of your faith? Somehow he still knew that God was love, but didn't see that in those around him. He did see the hypocrisy in many of them. To a sensitive, vulnerable soul, it does sound like abuse even though some of it could be imaginary or not such a big deal to a healthier personality. He didn't know how to deal with rejection, and how do average people not reject people who frighten them? By the time you are in this kind of abnormal mental state, everybody rejects you. He was crying for help on that board. Too bad somebody who could intervene or do something didn't pick up on it.
Did you see that video of Rick he linked to? I couldn't watch it all. Outwardly he seemed so calm. Why didn't someone pick up on his cry for help, or was the video posted after he had killed the two women and himself? Some professional could have caught it. At least the ex pentecostals recognized his need for professional help, but they wouldn't know the best kind. I wouldn't either, wouldn't know how to find the right person.
There were so many clues and red flags. One guy knew it was Matthew, wonder if he tried to alert the authorities. Better not say any more because it gores some sacred oxes.
I don’t mind goring sacred oxes when needed.
But this kids problems with flawed Christianity were
RELATIVELY minor
compared to his problems in his home. And, the problems in his home relative to impossible perfectionism—again—assuming even 10% of what he wrote to be true . . . set-up other Christians to always fail at being perfect Christians around him, too.
And, sadly, even in the best of orgs—which YWAM IS—there’s too often too high a degree of hypocrisy.
All of us are human and none of us measure up fully. But sometimes, it seems like the degree of hypocrisy that gets winked at is outrageous.
In some respects, if 10% of what he wrote is true . . . it’s a wonder he didn’t start with his mom.
Not to him. If it is what I think, it wouldn't be minor to me only I'm not the vengeful sort. He didn't know how to cope with anger, pain, and rejection. How could he? You can come out on the other side, more or less, but some people, especially young, don't know that. I don't think I would react by going over to the evil one though, certainly not consciously.
compared to his problems in his home.
We don't really have a good picture of that, a lot is assumptions, looking at it overall from what we think we know from what is out there. I know, I kind of did it, too. I think some good comments were made that weren't mean-spirited in intention but weren't taken well.
But sometimes, it seems like the degree of hypocrisy that gets winked at is outrageous.
How do you stop it? How do you play hypocrisy police? Ans. You don't. You learn to deal with it and avoid the worst ones.
it’s a wonder he didn’t start with his mom.
I wondered about that, but they seldom seem to. Actually most damaged Christians don't act out in this manner. A lot of these so-called Christians do a lot of damage to souls and you ought to know that. It's upsetting because it reflects on the whole of it and gives fodder to the Christian haters.
His mom will come under close scrutiny. One can only wonder how much denial there will be. Husbands are so often blind to the behavior and ways of their spouses, not so much the other way around. She may not deserve to be demonized. It appears she was trying to protect her children from bad influences we all know are out there. I don't want to say much more about her because it isn't fair not knowing all of it. The family has got to be hurting and confused, may never come to terms with it. I feel for them deeply, in a different way than I feel for the other families, but it is there nevertheless.
I'm not sure how the year determines whether or not there is a super/sub-natural. But an interesting idea. Perhaps the supernatural dies. Oh wait, that doesn't make sense. Must just be your presuppositions showing.
Oh, I totally agree. But if this stuff (having music and movies proscripted, isolation from the world at large, very legalistic expectations) is abuse, then I should probably enroll myself into a outpatient mental health facility.
Targeting New Life, he sent the message to her loud and clear.
I've said my piece & my discussion about this with you is over.
When mom is too scary of a target, go after the thing(s) you believe made her the way she is. Project her faults on to her husband, her parents or.... her church.
I’ve seen net stalking. This ain’t it. Stop responding to all of the flame bait thrown at you, because all that responding does is fan the flames, keeps it alive & drags more players into the game. Scroll & ignore.
I can show two people who laughed at my posts. I've yet seen anybody say "hey Quix, I actually like all cap posts." This contradicts your last statement to me and proves you wrong. If you have evidence to the contrary, it is incumbent upon you to provide that evidence if denying my statements. If you did, I could say "you are correct, I didn't see that."
Just remember that I went after you when you referred to people who even politely told you that all cap posts are hard to read and not considered good manners as:
- childish
- irrational
- group-thinkers
- unconservative
If not directly, you implied it. I'm sure you called them other things too, but I'm too lazy at this point to go back and look.
It is not often that I choose to call people like you out. When I do, I don't back down. I bristle at overdeveloped egos, and like to beat them down. Yes, consider that a hobby, just as your hobby appears to be blathering on as an "expert" and dismissing others with your "I have a PhD" BS. I can be troll-like in this regard and make no apologies for it becasue people like you have your own tack for overly dominating a discussion while arrogantly dismissing others.
Anybody is free to psychoanalyze my intent, but regardless, your arrogance and brashness with others in the beginning is what I chose to attack. Would I do that in real life? Of course not. The Internet is interesting like that, in that it encourages this type of bravado.
Now, your hit and run silliness has made me out to be a liar, as I told one other poster that I was finished with you because I am now irritating others on the thread.
You are now free to post another meaningless one line like the one I am replying to here to avoid addressing the actual elements of the debate, if it makes you feel better and helps keep your alternate reality and your ego in order.
Well, then, thank-you for your input, lol.
I can't let this post stand. I haven't followed you to any other thread. This therefore would not be considered netstalking.
Try again.
Quix, I merely weighed in on the all cap question after you started calling people names and used harsh ad hominem attacks as your primary defense in your posting style.
All other posts have been responses to you. You reply back, so by your own incorrect definition, you are netstalking.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.