Four People Shot Outside Colorado Springs New Life Church

Fox News ^ | 09 DEC 07 | Fox News

[aomagrat]

[I waited 45 seconds and actually posted something substantial--Ed.]

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — At least four people were shot outside of a Colorado Springs church on Sunday, but it was not immediately known whether the shootings were related to an earlier shooting about 70 miles away, authorities said.

[Rick.Donaldson]

No. You are too lazy to use Google or Wiki and you are too lazy to read the thread before commenting on others in a supercilious, condescending and vacuous manner.

Ok, first off, you're incorrect. I use google all the time. I am NOT too "lazy" to read the whole thread. I did NOT and will NOT read the whole thread because the title is "Four People Shot Outside Colorado Springs New life church" -- and yet, there are discussions of everything under the sun, including "the use of medication" causing this incident.

There are a whole bunch of traded insults going back (including now what you're posting to me).

Also, please note that this thread spans three days worth of stuff, and I HAVE read the majority of it, but I missed a few hundred posts because I SLEPT last night (and since my last post before today, there were about 500 more posts made).

I DID read most of that since yesterday's posts, but I MISSED, and God forgive me for overlooking your post, but MISSED the one about the damned acronyms you're bandying about.

As for being supercilious or condescending, or vacuous, I am not any of the three, except perhaps in your limited and ignorant opinion of me. So, you want to start insulting my intelligence... fine, I can do the same thing to you.... let's see now...

You stated "I won't answer you again", why don't you stick to your own rules, or do you like to LIE?

Don't bother to respond because I really don't care what you have to say now.

I was polite to you, and if you some how mistook my questions for anything other than trying to educate myself, then tough $Hi+ on you. You just lost about 3000 points towards your own discrediting.

[Quix]

Trying to “make’ me cry, are you!

Thanks tons for your kind words.

Prayers for your brother.

I can well understand folks antipathy for Christianity. I’ve had more pastors abuse me far more than a lot of secular people combined.

But most people are doing MORE OR LESS the best they know.

They are eeking out a living and trying to get the basics done; get the dishes washed and most of the dirty clothes washed and most of the bills paid.

The enemy and advertising has worked hard to insure that folks in our culture are chasing too many attractions with too little time etc. left over even for sane thought—much less getting alone with God and HEARING HIM.

We have to really be healthy rebels just to stay remotely sane any more.

Eric Fromm in THE SANE SOCIETY asserted that

IN AN INSANE SOCIETY—ONLY THE INSANE, ARE SANE.

Already too true in our own society and his book is now decades old.

[Quix]

PRAISE GOD THAT THEY ARE SO SUPPORTIVE AND UNDERSTANDING.

Clearly He has guided your ending up with such vs the opposite.

yeah, the indoctrination in the professional schools is intense. I was the token Christian in my class of 40.

I was mostly . . . tolerated . . . on such scores . . . and maybe treated as an odd amusement.

[LibertyRocks]

Don’t get me wrong... I’ve used those words too! ;) (Hasn’t every parent??? LOL)

[bluefish]

Heh heh.. you keep telling yourself that my responses to you are all I have in life. I suspect that is your own attempt to raise dopamine levels. You appear to need all the ego-boosts you can find.

[CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC]

61 year old white bearded . . . curmudgeon???

Yeah, but you still didn't answer their question - male or female?

heh heh

[LibertyRocks]

I now read and understand the “Sins of the father” passage as speaking directly to the cycle of abuse that permeates generation upon generation of families... Thankfully, some of us are able to stop the cycle of abuse. In the case of my (adoptive) family history I have identified that I am definitely the third generation in the cycle of abuse, and there are definite signs that I might be in the fourth generation in this particular family/cycle. Very profound wisdom in scripture is there not? :)

[LibertyRocks]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you have said here Quix. It was definitely a last resort for me. I won’t get into specifics, and I wasn’t as “bad off” as many people I’ve known through my life (no suicidal thoughts or anything like that), but the very small dosage of the meds I am on were enough to allow me to get a hold of the “self-talk”, and stop me from sliding back into the agony I experienced as a young adult trying to recover from sexual/physical/emotional abuse. (Triggered again by being sexually assaulted several years ago). There were many other physical factors I was dealing with as well that contributed to my depression (painful physical problems with my back and neck that required months of procedures and therapies, etc... that also cause “flashbacks” of a sort that reminded me of the pain I experienced when being physically abused, etc...).

The meds have allowed me to get back on track as far as being able to recognize when I was beginning to “slide” and allowed me to again use the tools I have gained through my life that correct the erroneous patterns of behavior set up by my father in my childhood...

I greatly appreciate your wisdom, and your willingness to discuss these issues... I hope that by my sharing such as well that others will be less afraid to discuss these things throughout our society... THAT I feel is what is necessary to truly help those in our world who are suffering like this young man, and hopefully have the best shot at preventing tragedies like these from occurring in the future...

[LibertyRocks]

You are so right... EVERYONE needs support from friends and loved ones in their lives — or they risk becoming mentally ill! LOL ;)

[Girlene]

Just throwning my two cents in on the discussion about the shooter. I think the writings at post 2032 are very key to some of the shooter's "issues". When he refers to the term "left behind", he's referring to the series of books/movies, "Left Behind", describing what will happen to people at the end of times who remain on earth after Christ returns and takes all believers to heaven in the Rapture.

He describes a family and/or church that reinforces a good amount of fear of going to hell should they ever backslide or sin.

I remember as a child laying awake at night, terrified that I was going to “get left behind” for some childish bad thing I’d done or thought or some mistake I’d done. That was around age 8-12 and I would continue to have similar fear through my teenage years. I remember being terrified around year 2000 and always worried about this...”antichrist” who was going to somehow do all these terrible things to people who weren’t “born again” AND had not lost their salvation/committed some sin. I’d lay awake at night and be terrified during the day asking over and over “what if I commit a sin, and don’t have time to confess and ask God forgiveness and repent and get...left behind?!” “what if I’m in some sin that I don’t even recognize and I get......left behind?” “what if I’m watching something on TV that’s somehow a “sin” and Jesus returns and I get......left behind?” “what if I commit the unpardonable sin and get....left behind?”

Some days I’d even lay awake worrying that I had dropped a few cents while placing my 10% tithes into the offering plate or that I had miscalculated my tithes and....something bad would happen........

He's fixated on committing any type of sin, even accidently cheating on his tithe by a few cents, getting into an accident, dieing...and thus ending up in hell, or being left behind after the rapture. He's fixated on a mistaken belief (IMO) that since he can't be perfect, he's going to end up in hell anyway...so what's the point in trying.

I don't know if he was also developing a mental illness, but this may have added to his paranoia, personality disorder, whatever you want to call it. It is very sad to look inside a mind that believed he had no hope, and then filled it with hatred and anger. It appears he rebelled against this all-or-nothing ideology and wanted to find more truth in his quest with God. Unfortunately, it seems he tried to change the church, the mission, the family, whatever, instead of leaving home and furthering his personal religious quest for answers for himself. Maybe he could have found peace with Christians who understood his background and would have led him to Christ's love and forgiveness before he decided to kill others.

Just some thoughts. Thank goodness for Jeanne Assam who stopped him from killing any more people. May God bless her as she goes forward.

[Quix]

LOL.

So much for your assessment skills on appearances!

[Quix]

Well put.

Part of my solution well before my PhD level and many ADDED fiery furnace levels of understanding took hold . . .

Part of my solution was to have a vasectomy.

I was NOT going to visit my family craziness on another innocent generation.

And, I didn’t want to risk mangling adopted kids either, early on.

Thankfully, a psychologist my wife and I lived with for 18 months—she a nurse—asserted that I’d make a much, much better father than she would a mother—and she was a great gal. But at the end of a day of caring for premies . . . she didn’t need more kids—that was TRUE! LOL.

Anyway—have contented myself—mostly—with helping those who are already here have better lives. God knows how well that has succeeded or not. He is my Boss and paymaster. The rest can go suck rocks.

Thanks so enormously for your understanding.

Given the new research on the capacity of how we THINK and speak CHANGING OUR VERY DNA . . .

that Scripture CERTAINLY IS AWESOMELYL PROFOUND.

There ARE serious consequences for rebelling against God even in some “little foxes that spoil the grapes” details.

And PROVOKE NOT YOUR CHILDREN TO WRATH is NOT

A

LITTLE

DETAIL.

Anyway . . . my 2 cents.

[Quix]

The meds have allowed me to get back on track as far as being able to recognize when I was beginning to “slide” and allowed me to again use the tools I have gained through my life that correct the erroneous patterns of behavior set up by my father in my childhood...

I greatly appreciate your wisdom, and your willingness to discuss these issues... I hope that by my sharing such as well that others will be less afraid to discuss these things throughout our society... THAT I feel is what is necessary to truly help those in our world who are suffering like this young man, and hopefully have the best shot at preventing tragedies like these from occurring in the future...

= = =

Much great wisdom in your words.

I too hope folks take them prayerfully to heart.

You certainly have only support and cheers from me.

Thanks for your kind words and especially your understanding. Priceless.

[LibertyRocks]

{{{HUGS}}} G-d bless you Quix! I’m “outta here” for now... Got stuff to take care of in “real life”! LOL

[Quix]

I think the enemy gets folks into the state the shooter was in

in more ways than one

—many ways just don’t show so ‘anti-socially’ violently—some show in “acceptable” ways—workaholism—even rewarded . . . etc. shopaholics . . . etc.

all seeking that dopamine fix because the love buckets were never even half filled the first 8 years of life . . .

GOD DESIGNED US TO NEED ONE ANOTHER

but our ME FIRST AND ONLY culture bred by satanic influences right and left insists on destructive utter autonomy and freedom to do only what the individual feels like at the time regardless of how individually or socially destructive it is.

Being NEEDY is NOT the American way in any way shape or form so must NEVER be admitted even in one’s mirror.

But GOD DID DESIGN US TO NEED ONE ANOTHER. AND IN THE CONTEXT

of needing one another and meeting one another’s needs—we LEARN WHAT HIS LOVE IS LIKE as well as HIS PRIORITIES regarding RELATIONSHIP and loving in general . . . and thereby we learn HIS CHARACTER.

Which helps prepare us for ruling and reigning with Him in eternity. Pretty neat plan, imho.

Thx

[Quix]

I think your observations are very apt.

It is tragic that no one in that system either saw sufficiently the vision of the kids whole reality

or didn’t have the ability to slice through it with redemptive TRUTH IN LOVE.

Perhaps therefore, God at his point of death gave him another chance. That’s not a Biblical conjecture per se . . . though I don’t know that The Bible ABSOLUTELY prevents it. But I could imagine God giving him a life review in seconds and then another chance at accepting Christ once and for all. We shall see. Certainly there was plenty of reason to say he deliberately and repeatedly CHOSE evil in anger and revenge over his maltreatment . . .

Thankfully, God alone is the judge of all that.

[Quix]

Understand. My old system crashed when I started to do the grades for my last class undone.

Better get back to that effort.

[CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC]

But I don't think we can assume that the reason nobody managed to help him is through lack of trying.

My guess is that many people did try, in many different ways, to help him. And it's not necessarily their fault that they weren't able to turn him around.

I remember watching my older brother pick up a drunk lying in the middle of the street and move him to the sidewalk. As we were walking away, I turned around to look, and the drunk was crawling back out to the middle of the street.

[Quix]

True. true.

I have no need to harshly judge anyone in this situation.

I primarily want folks to learn from it and do better today and tomorrow in the relationships they have.

[CardCarryingMember.VastRightWC]

Murray's final online rant (that was deleted, as we found out), has been obtained by the news media. They said he posted it at 11:03 Sunday morning, 9+ hours after killing the YWAM people, and a little less than 2 hours before he murdered two teenage sisters in the Springs.

He made it appear as if it was his original text, but it wasn't (which makes me wonder about the rest of his literary output). It was apparently a copy of what one of the Columbine killers (Harris) wrote, except he removed the name of the Columbine teen who Harris wanted to kill, and replaced it with this phrase: "Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world."

The Murray/Harris rant is at: Killer's rant filled with profanity, hate

The parent article is at: Diatribe foretold church shooting horror