WWII P-38 fighter discovered in Wales

AP on Yahoo ^ | 11/15/07 | Richard Pyle - ap

[NormsRevenge]

NEW YORK - Sixty-five years after an American P-38 fighter plane ran out of gas and crash-landed on a beach in Wales, the long-forgotten World War II relic has emerged from the surf and sand where it lay buried.

Beach strollers, sunbathers and swimmers often frolicked within a few yards of the aircraft, unaware of its existence until last summer, when unusual weather caused the sand to shift and erode.

The revelation of the Lockheed "Lightning" fighter, with its distinctive twin-boom design, has stirred interest in British aviation circles and among officials of the country's aircraft museums, ready to reclaim another artifact from history's greatest armed conflict.

Based on its serial number and other records, "the fighter is arguably the oldest P-38 in existence, and the oldest surviving 8th Air Force combat aircraft of any type," said Ric Gillespie, who heads a U.S.-based nonprofit group dedicated to preserving historic aircraft. "In that respect it's a major find, of exceptional interest to British and American aviation historians."

Gillespie finds romance as well as historic significance in the discovery of the aircraft, long forgotten by the U.S. government.

"It's sort of like `Brigadoon,' the mythical Scottish village that appears and disappears," he said. "Although the Welsh aren't too happy about that analogy — they have some famous legends of their own."

Gillespie's organization, the International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery, learned of the plane's existence in September from a British air history enthusiast and sent a team to survey the site last month. The group plans to collaborate with British museum experts in recovering the fragile but nearly intact aircraft next spring.

The Imperial War Museum Duxford and the Royal Air Force Museum are among the institutions expressing interest.

"The difficult part is to keep such a dramatic discovery secret. Looting of historic wrecks, aircraft or ships, is a major problem, in Britain as it is worldwide," Gillespie said.

British aviation publications have been circumspect about disclosing the exact location, and local Welsh authorities have agreed to keep the plane under surveillance whenever it is exposed by the tides of the Irish Sea, he said. For now, the aircraft is again buried under sand.

Officially, the U.S. Air Force considers any aircraft lost before Nov. 19, 1961 — when a fire destroyed many records — as "formally abandoned," and has an interest in such cases only if human remains are involved.

The twin-engine P-38, a radical design conceived by Lockheed design genius Clarence "Kelly" Johnson in the late 1930s, became one of the war's most successful fighter planes, serving in Europe and the Pacific. About 10,000 of the planes were built, and about 32 complete or partial airframes are believed to still exist, perhaps 10 in flying condition.

Another P-38, part of a "lost squadron" of warplanes marooned by bad weather in Greenland while being flown to Europe in 1942, was recovered and extensively restored with new parts. Dubbed "Glacier Girl," its attempt to complete the flight to Britain earlier this year was thwarted by mechanical problems.

The Wales Lightning, built in 1941, reached Britain in early 1942 and flew combat missions along the Dutch-Belgian coast.

Second Lt. Robert F. "Fred" Elliott, 24, of Rich Square, N.C., was on a gunnery practice mission on Sept. 27, 1942, when a fuel supply error forced him to make an emergency landing on the nearest suitable place — the Welsh beach.

His belly landing in shallow water sheared off a wingtip, but Elliott escaped unhurt. Less than three months later, the veteran of more than 10 combat missions was shot down over Tunisia, in North Africa. His plane and body were never found.

As the disabled P-38 could not be flown off the beach, "American officers had the guns removed, and the records say the aircraft was salvaged, but it wasn't," Gillespie said. "It was gradually covered with sand, and there it sat for 65 years. With censorship in force and British beaches closed to the public during the war, nobody knew it was there."

It was first spotted by a family enjoying a day at the beach on July 31.

The discovery was stunning news for Robert Elliott, 64, of Blountville, Tenn., the pilot's nephew and only surviving relative. He has spent nearly 30 years trying to learn more about his namesake's career and death.

All he knew of the Wales incident was a one-line entry saying Elliott had "ditched a P-38 and was uninjured."

"So this is just a monumental discovery, and a very emotional thing," said Elliott, an engineering consultant. He said he hopes to be present for the recovery.

[alarm rider]

True that. I cannot imagine that a person could be close to such an aircraft and not be moved.

I love the sound, but to be near them and hear them up close just never fails to send me to a higher place.

[Doogle]

heres another one of my favs at the “tube”...now these guys were haulin..(volume)..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpwH6U-uzP0

[Vinnie]

I didn’t realize the Lancaster had 4 RR Merlins.
What a sound!

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

turbochargers

As a mechanical engineering student I was fascinated with the turbocharger, which recovers energy which otherwise would be wasted. Imagine my surprise when, in attempting to research a high school classmate, I learned that a namesake of his, possibly his grandfather, came up with the turbocharger concept in the 1930s (and died in 1944). The turbocharger, it turns out, was uniquely American during WWII. The turbochager was only employed in the P-38 and the P-47 - both of which were designed around it (the plumbing for which filled the aft fuselage).

[bd476]

Triple-ace Brigadier General Robin Olds, the first Wolf of the famed Wolf Pack, passed away June 14, 2007.

Flying a P-38, Colonel Olds earned his Ace rating in World War II when he took down 12 planes in the German Luftwaffe in 1944-45.

Five months after Brigadier General Robin Old's passing, to the day, we learn that a P-38 has suddenly been discovered washed up in the sand on an, as of yet, undisclosed beach in Wales.

What a way to keep the memory of one of our Nation's Finest alive. Thank you for your service to our country, General Olds. Rest in Peace!



Viet Nam: Colonel Olds and his crew



Colonel Robin Olds in Vietnam in front of his F-4C

---

"...He became an ace with 12 aerial victories during World War II, flying P-38 Lightnings and P-51 Mustangs, and later shot down 4 MiGs in Vietnam to bring his total to 16.

He also led the 8th Tactical Fighter Wing -- the famed "Wolfpack" -- to a record 24 aerial victories, a total unsurpassed by any other wing during the war in Southeast Asia," the general said..."

"...General Olds is rated a triple ace, having shot down a total of 17 enemy aircraft during World War II and the Vietnam War.

He began his combat flying in a P-38 Lightning named "Scat 1" during World War II, and at the end of the war he was flying "Scat VII," a P-51 Mustang, and was credited with 107 combat missions and 24.5 victories, 12 aircraft shot down and 11 1/2 aircraft destroyed on the ground..."

Setting aside how many of the VPAF claims are admitted by USAF, certainly the number of American planes lost to the MiGs worried the US, because the Air Force decided to make an important effort to neutralize the MiG threat: the effort known as Operation “Bolo”.



"...The idea and planning of this operation was the masterpiece of a living legend among the US F-4 pilots in South East Asia: Colonel Robin Olds. He was a P-38/P-51 Ace during WWII, credited with 12 kills against the German Luftwaffe in 1944-45, and now – at 44 years old - he was the CO of the 8th TFW (nicknamed “The Wolf Pack”). He was an “old-fashioned” fighter pilot: impulsive, rough, hard-drinking, but a natural leader and an intuitive tactician."

Posted in June 2007:

Kunsan Airmen pay tribute to triple ace fighter pilot Brig. Gen. Robin Olds WWII & VietNam

[Moose4]

About twelve years ago, I was at the US Air and Trade Show in Dayton, and there was a missing man formation flyby by the Confederate Air Force’s B-17 “Texas Raider,” their B-24 “Diamond Lil,” their B-29 “Fifi,” and the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum’s Lancaster. Now imagine those four birds in a tight four-ship formation, with the B-17 peeling up and away as the “missing man,” and “Amazing Grace” on bagpipes playing over the PA. Just...wow.

The Allison V-1710 and the Merlin are both sweet-sounding engines. But give me a Pratt and Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp radial any day. A few years back in South Carolina I saw a R-2800-powered Korean War F4U-4 Corsair doing flybys...and brother, there is a reason the Japanese called that thing “Whistling Death.” Hearing that thing doing a low pass at 300 mph will stand the hair up on the back of your neck.

}:-)4

[Moose4]

I’m pretty sure they are. They also turned up on competitive pulling tractors in the ‘90s...sometimes as many as six or seven of them on a single tractor, with big dragster-style blowers bolted on top.

The Allison engine has gotten a bad rep compared to the Merlin because most of the Allison’s installations (in the P-39 and P-40) were not supercharged, and were thus weak at high altitude. Plus, the P-39 and P-40 lost so heavily against the Japanese at the start of the war, they got tagged as inferior aircraft...even though the Flying Tigers scored heavily with very early model P-40s, and the Soviets got thousands of Allison-powered P-39s and P-63s via Lend-Lease and put them to good use.

}:-)4

[Doogle]

Thanks for the post BD....
(see tagline) I learned of his exploits and was constantly reminded...(fondly)...a true American fighter pilot/warrior....taught by example, and looked up to by many. It took me about a year to grow my handlebar stash, it was just the thing to do back then

[Professional Engineer]

ping

[bd476]

Remembering Brigadier General Robin Olds: Coincidence?

Five months ago, on June 14, 2007, Brig. General Robin Olds, legendary Ace fighter pilot and the first Wolf of the famed Wolf Pack, passed away.

Then Colonel Robin Olds achieved his Ace rating flying a P-38 Lightning during World War II. Colonel Olds took down 12 German Luftwaffe planes in 1944-45.

Today, five months to the day after Brig. General Old's passing, we get word that a P-38 Lightning has washed up on an, as of yet, undisclosed beach in Wales.

What a fine way to remember Brigadier General Olds.

God Bless Brigadier General Olds. Rest in Peace!

Photos and brief outline

More in depth articles about Brigadier General Robin Olds:

Kunsan Airmen pay tribute to triple ace fighter pilot Brig. Gen. Robin Olds WWII & VietNam

Legendary fighter pilot Robin Olds dies

[Jet Jaguar]

Thanks for the ping.

[EnquiringMind]

My father flew a P-38. I am so proud of him.

[syriacus]

Neat!

[zot]

Thank you for posting the article on Robin Olds. He was indeed a fighter pilot’s fighter pilot, and a genuine hero of three wars. May he rest in peace.

That is a great picture of the P-38 found off the coast of Wales. It is amazing that it survived.

[HANG THE EXPENSE]

I partly agree.The 39 was a dog but the kittyhawk was a damn fine airplane and very rugged and dependable.Lots of aces achieved 5 or more kills early in the war flying the P-40.The Aussies and the Kiwis and the Brits had a fine record flying all varients of the kitty hawk.Our frontline fighter units in the pacific were using the 40 up till they were replaced by P-38s in middle 43.For what she was designed for she easily met and exceeded.

[af_vet_rr]

You’re probably right, but the folks at Duxford can work miracles - if its possible, they can do it - and would love the chance!

The Brits are huge on restoring WWII and WWI military vehicles, so they probably have as much or more expertise as we do (with most of our's concentrated at the Smithsonian). AS a matter of fact, there is a factory in Britain that I believe has started churning out replica WWII fighters, which is really cool.

[devolve]

.

Jonah & the Whale?

[BIGLOOK]

A Lightning Strike.......ping

P-38s are rare birds. Hope the restoration goes well and this bird flies again.


Thanks for the ping BD......heard this on the news this morning....followed by a tsunami advisory of a 7.7 shaker in Chile. Chilean quakes can be a serious problem here. Just another day in paradise.

[potlatch]

Yep, he got me........

[devolve]

.

Six minutes!

11,000 images!

(NYC call +)