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WWII P-38 fighter discovered in Wales
AP on Yahoo ^ | 11/15/07 | Richard Pyle - ap

Posted on 11/14/2007 2:27:34 PM PST by NormsRevenge

NEW YORK - Sixty-five years after an American P-38 fighter plane ran out of gas and crash-landed on a beach in Wales, the long-forgotten World War II relic has emerged from the surf and sand where it lay buried.

Beach strollers, sunbathers and swimmers often frolicked within a few yards of the aircraft, unaware of its existence until last summer, when unusual weather caused the sand to shift and erode.

The revelation of the Lockheed "Lightning" fighter, with its distinctive twin-boom design, has stirred interest in British aviation circles and among officials of the country's aircraft museums, ready to reclaim another artifact from history's greatest armed conflict.

Based on its serial number and other records, "the fighter is arguably the oldest P-38 in existence, and the oldest surviving 8th Air Force combat aircraft of any type," said Ric Gillespie, who heads a U.S.-based nonprofit group dedicated to preserving historic aircraft. "In that respect it's a major find, of exceptional interest to British and American aviation historians."

Gillespie finds romance as well as historic significance in the discovery of the aircraft, long forgotten by the U.S. government.

"It's sort of like `Brigadoon,' the mythical Scottish village that appears and disappears," he said. "Although the Welsh aren't too happy about that analogy — they have some famous legends of their own."

Gillespie's organization, the International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery, learned of the plane's existence in September from a British air history enthusiast and sent a team to survey the site last month. The group plans to collaborate with British museum experts in recovering the fragile but nearly intact aircraft next spring.

The Imperial War Museum Duxford and the Royal Air Force Museum are among the institutions expressing interest.

"The difficult part is to keep such a dramatic discovery secret. Looting of historic wrecks, aircraft or ships, is a major problem, in Britain as it is worldwide," Gillespie said.

British aviation publications have been circumspect about disclosing the exact location, and local Welsh authorities have agreed to keep the plane under surveillance whenever it is exposed by the tides of the Irish Sea, he said. For now, the aircraft is again buried under sand.

Officially, the U.S. Air Force considers any aircraft lost before Nov. 19, 1961 — when a fire destroyed many records — as "formally abandoned," and has an interest in such cases only if human remains are involved.

The twin-engine P-38, a radical design conceived by Lockheed design genius Clarence "Kelly" Johnson in the late 1930s, became one of the war's most successful fighter planes, serving in Europe and the Pacific. About 10,000 of the planes were built, and about 32 complete or partial airframes are believed to still exist, perhaps 10 in flying condition.

Another P-38, part of a "lost squadron" of warplanes marooned by bad weather in Greenland while being flown to Europe in 1942, was recovered and extensively restored with new parts. Dubbed "Glacier Girl," its attempt to complete the flight to Britain earlier this year was thwarted by mechanical problems.

The Wales Lightning, built in 1941, reached Britain in early 1942 and flew combat missions along the Dutch-Belgian coast.

Second Lt. Robert F. "Fred" Elliott, 24, of Rich Square, N.C., was on a gunnery practice mission on Sept. 27, 1942, when a fuel supply error forced him to make an emergency landing on the nearest suitable place — the Welsh beach.

His belly landing in shallow water sheared off a wingtip, but Elliott escaped unhurt. Less than three months later, the veteran of more than 10 combat missions was shot down over Tunisia, in North Africa. His plane and body were never found.

As the disabled P-38 could not be flown off the beach, "American officers had the guns removed, and the records say the aircraft was salvaged, but it wasn't," Gillespie said. "It was gradually covered with sand, and there it sat for 65 years. With censorship in force and British beaches closed to the public during the war, nobody knew it was there."

It was first spotted by a family enjoying a day at the beach on July 31.

The discovery was stunning news for Robert Elliott, 64, of Blountville, Tenn., the pilot's nephew and only surviving relative. He has spent nearly 30 years trying to learn more about his namesake's career and death.

All he knew of the Wales incident was a one-line entry saying Elliott had "ditched a P-38 and was uninjured."

"So this is just a monumental discovery, and a very emotional thing," said Elliott, an engineering consultant. He said he hopes to be present for the recovery.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: colrobinolds; discovered; p38; wales; warbirds; wolfpack; ww2; wwii
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To: NormsRevenge

61 posted on 11/14/2007 4:46:46 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: tanknetter

Cool, I learn something new every day.


62 posted on 11/14/2007 5:13:16 PM PST by Dr.Zoidberg (Mohammedanism - Bringing you only the best of the 6th century for fourteen hundred years.)
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To: Doogle

God, that’s a beautiful sound...


63 posted on 11/14/2007 5:15:14 PM PST by alarm rider (Why should I not vote my conscience?)
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To: NormsRevenge

Without a doubt one of the coolest planes ever. Probably not as fun to fly as it is cool.


64 posted on 11/14/2007 5:15:51 PM PST by RightWhale (anti-razors are pro-life)
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To: alarm rider

...yeah it is,but if you like a great sounding plane..(p51)..crank up the volume on this clip..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ziqo0XE8GA


65 posted on 11/14/2007 5:27:35 PM PST by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: patton

The USAF at Elmendorf recovered a P38 that landed on Attu (an island out on the chain) back in 1996. Two years later it was restored and on display.

Photo and stories at
http://www.shemya.us/aleutians/Aircraft/html/p-38-recovered.htm

FOr a cool google earth link
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/284050/an/0/page/1503


66 posted on 11/14/2007 5:33:46 PM PST by ASOC
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To: alarm rider

and besides the P51...if you ever get the chance to listen to a B-25 start up and take off..it is exciting


67 posted on 11/14/2007 5:33:53 PM PST by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: alarm rider

WHOOPS HERE YA GO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7y5Gy6yLlw


68 posted on 11/14/2007 5:36:35 PM PST by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Doogle

Oh Man...Beautiful!!!!


69 posted on 11/14/2007 5:39:56 PM PST by alarm rider (Why should I not vote my conscience?)
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To: ASOC

I saw a show on that plane, the guy who financed that recovery, and I even think they had the original pilot who flew it...(can’t remember for sure)


70 posted on 11/14/2007 5:40:50 PM PST by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: Doogle

I have heard B-25’s,and many more as I attend air shows every chance I get.

The last was the great Reading, PA WWII airshow last June.

Ain’t it great? I never get tired of hearing those engines.


71 posted on 11/14/2007 5:41:47 PM PST by alarm rider (Why should I not vote my conscience?)
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To: Red Badger

That’s a William Phillips painting isn’t it?


72 posted on 11/14/2007 5:49:32 PM PST by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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To: 353FMG

I agree!! It was a beautiful plane.


73 posted on 11/14/2007 5:52:44 PM PST by MissP-38
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To: Doogle

DOn’t know, it was an all Air Force/ANG project.

I was amazed that they got it all done in two years, but when you stand next to the airframe, you see just how, well *tiny* it is compared to an F15 or F16.

I take all our visitor out to see the “airplane on a stick” park.


74 posted on 11/14/2007 5:53:52 PM PST by ASOC
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To: alarm rider
The last was the great Reading, PA WWII airshow last June.

There was a great one in Columbus also, end of Sept..

Over 100 P-51s + P-38, B-25, B-17, British Lancaster,
All flying. Wonderful

Oh, and an F-22.

75 posted on 11/14/2007 5:57:11 PM PST by Vinnie (You're Nobody 'Til Somebody Jihads You)
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To: devolve; ntnychik; PhilDragoo; MeekOneGOP

Ping of interest


76 posted on 11/14/2007 5:57:34 PM PST by potlatch ("Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we might as well dance!")
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To: alarm rider
I used to attend the one up in Sussex cty NJ. A few years back they had a P51 and others there. I had the significant other with me at the time and she had never heard one in flight....after it took off and went out about 5 miles in a circular pattern.... I told her as I knew it was approaching from behind us...”now listen to this”...she looked up at me and said what?..I said, just listen...well over it came at about 100ft and she grabbed my arm..and all she kept saying was WOW......WOW......WOW.........*smiles*..I then said, “now ya know why I wanted to be here today”
77 posted on 11/14/2007 5:58:59 PM PST by Doogle (USAF.68-73..8th TFW Ubon Thailand..never store a threat you should have eliminated))
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To: NormsRevenge; glock rocks

Thanks for the ping Norm...


78 posted on 11/14/2007 5:59:05 PM PST by tubebender (My weight is perfect for my height... which varies...)
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To: Vinnie
A couple of years ago, they had the Lancaster at Reading. My God, what a formidable aircraft that thing is. It did a couple of slow turns at low altitude. Just beautiful!
79 posted on 11/14/2007 6:01:29 PM PST by alarm rider (Why should I not vote my conscience?)
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To: RightWhale; NormsRevenge
Without a doubt one of the coolest planes ever. Probably not as fun to fly as it is cool.

True, so true.

(The “air scoops” (holes for the forward-facing cannons and machine guns in the nose cowling) also “scooped” hundreds of pounds of -20 degree air into the cockpit every minute. Single engine aircraft had a nice warm engine forward, and a solid plate in front of the cockpit so they had little problem with cooling (er, freezing) the pilot.

80 posted on 11/14/2007 6:03:05 PM PST by Robert A Cook PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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