Posted on 10/16/2007 10:27:25 AM PDT by eraser2005
NEW YORK, CNNMoney.com -- The Toyota brand has lost its top position for iron-clad reliability, according to an influential Consumer Reports survey released Tuesday.
The survey dropped Toyota from first to fifth place - behind Honda, Acura, Scion and Subaru - in average vehicle reliability. The rankings are based on average predicted reliability for all models sold under a given brand.
Brands made by Toyota Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. still dominate the rankings: Scion is Toyota's low-priced car brand and Acura is Honda's luxury car brand.
Consumer Reports said it no longer recommends V6 versions of Toyota's Camry or V8 versions of its Tundra pick-up because of poor reliability.
In the past, because Toyota (Charts) products have so consistently proved reliable, the magazine would assume at least average reliability for Toyota's brand new cars, without waiting for survey data from owners.
But from now on, the magazine will wait for a full year of reliability survey data to come in before it recommends a Toyota product - as it does with most other manufacturers.
(Excerpt) Read more at money.cnn.com ...
‘Thing is, you don’t have to be driving very fast or very hard to break an H2. Surprisingly, both the Ford Expedition and the barge-like Ford Excursion are far better off road than the H2 is, at least in terms of suspension durability.’
You say so. Again, I haven’t had any problems with my H2.
Yet you admit you haven’t gone offroad with it....
Meanwhile, my tow strap still has mud on it from when I used my Jeep Grand Wagoneer to pull an H2 with popped ball joints out of a mud hole.
And you sound like a riceburner worshiper. No, I’ve owned GM my entire life and will compare my vehicles to a toileta anytime for total functionality, maintainability, safety, durability comfort, reliability and certainly looks. Shall we start with my GMC with 276,000 miles or my Pontiac which will beat the tires off a comparable toileta? Don’t give me the UAW union crapola either or I’ll give you the fact that that country killed 100,000 Americans. I don’t like unions and would never join one. However, many of those UAW memebers are fine Americans that love this country.
‘Meanwhile, my tow strap still has mud on it from when I used my Jeep Grand Wagoneer ‘
ROTFLMAO!
You own a Jeep Grand Wagoneer?
(chuckle)
How quaint......
There are/were only two offroad-capable trucks sold under the Hummer brand. The H2 isn’t one of them.
I used to. Don’t any more, because while it never broke on the trail, it always had problems with electrics and such on the road.
And, by the way, it was still better offroad than your H2 is - which was the whole point of the truck. For onroad usage, I have somewhat nicer vehicles....
Uh huh....(chuckle)
Have a good evening.
I have always liked t the old Toyota and Nissan 4wd trucks and if I were to be in the market for a small truck I would look there first.
Regarding the Titans - I have a concrete plant as a client. They go through trucks like people change tires. They just bought their first Titan for light duty shuttle work (like the F-150s and GM 1500s that are doing the same job), and so far it seems to be holding up to the abuse better than the GM 1500s do. We’ll see in about six months if its better than the F-150.
So I was right about your age.
If not literally, then emotionally.
If the UAW loves this country so much, then they might just worry a little more about quality and profit than enabling mediocre workers to make a ridiculous amount of money.
But doesn't CR determine reliability from customer surveys? So at least some Hummer drivers reported problems, right? I guess I'm not really sure what you're saying. Are you claiming that CR is fabricating unhappy Hummer customers?
I think I can see you have problems.
My Toyota 2002 Highlander has had many problems. The air scoop thing on the hood broke at 20 below zero and it got a flat tire once. Had to buy a new battery last winter and now new tires. Buick no doubt doesn’t have these problems.
Yeah, well, I’ve owned a car from damn near every maker at one time or another. I quit buying Toyotas back in 88 when I just couldn’t stand the arrogant, slimy dealers and their quasi-legal shenanigans.
At present we own 3 Hyundai Sonatas:
2004 6 cyl
2006 6 cyl
2007 4 cyl
As good as any Toyota I owned and I don’t feel the need to carry my own Vaseline when I go to the dealer.
Can not disagree on your choices, however that new Ford looks really nice.
At my age, I will stick with my GMC Sierra, Ford Expedition and Hyundai Santa Fe.
When did I say anything about Toyota’s v8 truck problem?
On the other hand, when will Toyota fix any of the myriad of problems I’ve had with my Camry?
Proof? Do you have a lick of proof?
The CR survey doesn’t prove that the V6 Camry is a terrible car... but it certainly proves that your claim isn’t true.
I’ve come to the conclusion that Toyota just hates you specifically.
You never did answer my question about who you spoke to at Toyota of Richardson. Names, please - or did you just not call?
Good question - by “234% worse”, I’ve seen people mean 234%, or 2.34 times, as well as 3.34 times (234% increase).
What MANY, MANY people are missing is that they define “average” as no worse than 3%.
So it appears they claim to have measured the solstice at either 7.02% at the most or 10.02% at the most.
Meaning even the worst vehicle they tested, well above average, really is a far cry from the days of yore, when a 7% failure rate would have been average or even better.
They’re reporting 93% of Ford models with failure rates of *less than 3%*, and not saying in this article how the other 7% did. In other words, 93% of Ford models they rate as more reliable than a v6 Camry.
Do I believe that? Should you? No. Why? Because they have small sample sizes, and it is impossible even with a perfect survey (theirs isnt) to measure differences of 1-2% when your sample sizes are 200-300.
But an alternate hypothesis, that the difference cannot be large, is much easier to prove with small sample sizes.
That’s the entire point. Their data doesn’t prove v6 Camrys are lousy. But it does prove there is little to no difference in reliability, and it really only identifys the low-end outliers.
But there are bashers on both sides who will twist this to prove some horrendous bias or whatever.... We really need to teach people statistics in school...
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