Posted on 10/09/2007 5:27:15 AM PDT by Man50D
Ron Petrucci's Sept. 24 letter addressing Charles Firth is right on a number of points. We have been running more than an $800 billion trade deficit. That can't go on for very long. Ron says we're a debtor nation and we are.
Our manufacturing continues to move overseas to "more tax friendly" locations. We can't exist by providing each other services. Picture everyone doing their neighbor's laundry. We need to produce products to exist.
What Ron neglected to say is that the reason for that migration is our tax system. Federal taxes and associated compliance costs comprise an average of 25.9 percent of prices of our goods and services. Imported goods and services arrive at our shores essentially tax-free, because most foreign governments encourage exports by rebating their taxes at their borders. We don't do that.
When we try to sell there, they add their taxes to our prices, so our goods and services end up bearing double taxes. American companies have a raw deal both ways. That's why they have trouble competing.
There is an answer, though in the form of HR 25, The Fair Tax Act. That bill is in the House ways and means committee. It is the most thoroughly researched tax bill ever.
For the second time, a group of noted economists recently wrote a letter to Congress and the president, urging them to pass it and sign it into law.
The bill already has more cosponsors than any other tax bill in 80 years. It is a grass-roots proposal. It will pass only if enough citizens support it and tell their representatives. If passed, the current federal tax system would be replaced by a national retail sales tax applied at the final retail sale and collected by the states.
Net retail prices paid would be about the same. Revenue raised would be about the same. Collecting a sales tax is much more efficient than collecting an income tax, it provides a steady revenue flow and everyone would pay.
It needs to pass now, though, before this president leaves office, because no first-term president will entertain changing the tax system, and Social Security will run out of liquid assets at about the end of the next president's first term.
Check the proposal out at www.fairtax.org
it reminds me of the used car salesman trick “which car are you going to buy on the lot?”
It is a transparent ploy to paint opposition to this fair tax scam and wanting to keep the current bad system.
The fact the tax scammers have to resort to such pathetic efforts only demonstrates the weakness of their cause.
I have a business and I know for a fact EXACTLY what the fairtax would do to it. And the home building industry would be wiped off the map with the fairtax no matter what the fairtax paid for WHORES say. They are 100% full of Bullcrap. Damn liars, each and every one of them.
For those of us who had IRAs long before the Roth came along, we will pay taxes. Anyone with a 401k will be taxed.
Pensions are taxed, period.
Pension income may cause SS to be taxed as well in the early retirement years.
The tax envy game occurs now and will not cease under any tax regime.
Taxes are never “fair” to anyone. The current tax scheme exempts almost 50% of the population from paying taxes. How is that better than the fair tax ?
In my book, if everyone pays taxes , and I mean everyone including those illegals who don’t now pay taxes, then just maybe those who believe they get government goodies for nothing will cease trying to vote us all into socialism.
wait till they try the “you must be an accountant or invested with the current system” smear, or other name calling.
then they’ll slip an “IRS Nazi” label on you.
Why would the fair tax be worse for business than for individuals ? Federal taxes on everything you buy for your business are included in prices now. What’s the difference ?
I agree that everybody needs to be invested in government. if one doesn’t pay taxes, one can afford to look to the government as the “Great Provider”.
but I’d go even further - have the recipients of government programs declare THAT as income, and tax that!
I’d tax everybody and all income at the same percentage rate, and send invoices each month - just like the mortgage. I would not allow payroll deduction. that way everybody will see just what they do pay.
Gosh, that means that everytime anyone buys a good or service today they're paying taxes because the tax is "embedded" in the price.
Under the Fair Tax, everytime anyone buys a good or service they're paying taxes but it's a separate line item and can be easily avoided.
That's an improvement? Making it easier to avoid paying taxes?
How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when your facts are flat wrong or skewed.
The entire boat building industry disappeared?
You and your other yapping mollusks friends can’t get to a point of accuracy in any of your comments. You take a view and stretch it into the unbelievably ridiculous.
It’s Ok with me because it shows those lurking in how weak the opposition is in the blogosphere.
We have been running more than an $800 billion trade deficit. That can’t go on for very long. Ron says we’re a debtor nation and we are.
Our manufacturing continues to move overseas to “more tax friendly” locations. We can’t exist by providing each other services. Picture everyone doing their neighbor’s laundry. We need to produce products to exist.
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the mercantilists are back!
And I’d love to share how much I get gigged for each 4/15....
Setting up things so one has to live like a pauper to be spared taxes may work for you, but for most Americans who enjoy what our success has brought it’s no sale.
right on schedule - the name calling. although I reckon that I’m so dubm that I can’t ever say that I have ever encountered a “yapping mollusk”.
my issue is that you and your ilk have imagined aa scenario nad refuse to believe that it will end up as anything other than your precisely dereamed up utopia. the fact that congress gets their greedy little teeth into the proposal and will most likely twist it into their own ends doesn’t seem to occur to you.
and your opposition isn’t quite as weak as you realize. once people get their anti-IRS bias dealt with and begin to consider what you r porposal really would mean, they’ll turn away in droves - hence your drive to get it done asap - before people realize just how oneruos it really is.
so go ahead and call us names, cast aspersions upon our intelligence (I bet I’d score higher on an IQ test, BTW), and don’t forget your “nazi” analogy. your tactics might subdue some of those opposed to your agenda, but it won’t make you right.
Horsepoop tax legislation doesn’t gather sponsorship in Congress or in the country.
The FairTax movement is the fastest growing tax reform legislation movement. It is thoroughly researched and replaces the Income tax with a more efficient means of taxation.
And mnay many people now know the FairTax is superior and those that don’t know it yet are learning and liking it. It’s only a little more time before it is in every living room in America, and without the lies and scare tactics put out about it.
yeah without a prebate there is no way this could sell. A sales tax only works if the rate is very very small
Any major new tax scheme is mainly a redistribution of taxes. In the case of the fairtax, it will be great for some groups and bad for others. The fairtax will hurt those with savings like the elderly and it will hurt businesses like housing which has to compete with the existing units. The fairtax has its advantages, but to pretend that it benefits everyone is a complete and utter lie.
You criticisms of the FairTax are weak, yet you claim the FairTax will cause havoc. You have nothing to back that up and when you try to back it up, it’s highly flawed as has been pointed out numerous numerous times here on FR.
Rather than demolish your arguments again about the FairTax being worse let’s see what you think abou the IRS and the Income tax.
Now if you are against the IRS and the Income tax let’s see a list of items that you don’t like about the IRS and Income tax.
I’m making a note that you are not for keeping the IRS as I await you comoment on why you don’t like the Income tax.
Like I asked earlier how am I or anyone to believe you and take you seriously on any subject when you make comments like ‘the entire boatbuilding industry in America disappeared’.
I have facts on this and am holding them while waiting for you to step in it.
This is the crux of the matter for you and your cohort here on FR. You yap with no accurate information. Mollusk is probably too high a grade I gave you. Now let’s see if you can evolve here into at least a primate. I’m waiting to see.
my proposals are not up for discussion, yours are.
let’s say that a business pays 40% tax on an item. if you eliminate that tax, do you reallyl think that they will automatically reduce their pricess by the 40%??? Doesn’t the company have a fiduciary obligation to their shareholders to maximize profits? Can’t they be sued for not doing so? Do you really think, given these conditions that it is hardly likely that prices will drop by the 40%?
so there will NOT be a price neutral effect (taking the tax ahen the item is sold rather than as currently done), there will be a net increase in prices spuring inflation at the least.
as prices increase, sales decrease. a sales decrease the government still needs that revenue, so the amount of tax on that item will have to increase, depressing sales still further. ad nauseum.
And as businesses will be loathe to decrease prices when the 40% tax is eliminated, government too will want thier extra cut. revenues will have to remain the same, or increase, in order for this to be acceptable. my guess will be that the politicians will use this proposal to wrest even more money from the people, another net loser.
your calling such valid objections and concerns “weak” does not negate them. you cannot guarantee that pre-tax prices will fall by any predictable amount, any more than you can guarantee that the finished law will look anything like your current proposal.
the smart money says that by the time congress gets though with your agenda, that you won’t recognize it, there would be no savings, government revenue will increase, the rich, who invest more of a percentage of their income will pay less taxes, and the middle class will end up paying more.
the middle class loses, the rich get richer, government gets more money.
No you don't! You just THINK you do!
Your right, its not fair to those people who can long form their way out of paying taxes.
oh I see the name calling is increasing! very good - that means that you’re running out of things to say.
so if you want to continue to discuss your misguided and dangerous proposal, we can do that, but if you need to stoop to name calling and questioning my intelligence, then all I can say is “so’s yer mom”:-)
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