Prayer Nixed at Rite for Victims

Madison.com via AP ^ | September 22, 2007 | Staff Writer @ AP

[Diana in Wisconsin]

The Wisconsin Department of Justice has removed religious content from a memorial service for murder victims planned for next week after a watchdog group complained.

A religious hymn called "This Too Shall Pass" and a closing prayer by a Lutheran pastor will not be included in the ceremony as initially planned, department spokesman Kevin St. John said Friday.

The Madison-based Freedom From Religion Foundation complained Tuesday that the hymn and the prayer at the state-sponsored event would violate the separation of church and state guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution.

After a review, St. John said the department agreed the content was on shaky constitutional footing.

"Rather than create the unintentional appearance that the state was endorsing religion or a particular creed, the department amended the program to exclude those parts," he said. "We certainly wouldn't want to have an appearance of a potential church-state violation overshadow the event."

He said the event, scheduled at the Capitol on Tuesday, would be the first of its kind in Wisconsin. Other events will take place around the country, including one in Washington, as part of the National Day of Remembrance for Murder Victims.

Pastor Charles Peterson, who had been scheduled to deliver the closing prayer, said he believed other ceremonies would include prayer. He said prayer can help mourners discover their spirituality.

"That's what people are looking for when they take part in a remembrance like this," he said. "I don't think they are looking for liberal politics."

As for the state's decision to cancel his prayer, he said: "That's fine with me. That's their loss, not mine."

The foundation, the nation's largest group of atheists and agnostics, praised Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen's office for quickly addressing its protest. The group said it complained on behalf of family members of murder victims and state employees who will take part in the event.

In the complaint, group co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor said the lyrics to the religious hymn would offend some in the audience "by advancing the idea that the murder of their beloved child was part of a deity's plan!"

She cited the following passage: "He'll never give you more than you can bear/This too shall pass / So in this thought be comforted/It's in His hands."

"Grieving and vulnerable families should not be proselytized by state government or be told how or what they are expected to believe," Gaylor wrote. "The state should not be selecting which minister, which denomination or which religion should confer blessings, thereby excluding all the rest of us."

Gaylor also asked Van Hollen to scrap the religious overtones of an annual ceremony at the Capitol that commemorates law enforcement officials who died in the line of duty.

She said that event inappropriately included a chaplain, prayer and a rendition of "Amazing Grace."

St. John said state officials participate in the event but it is hosted by a nonprofit group. As a result, he said, "there's nothing about that ceremony which would run afoul of the First Amendment."

[vladimir998]

From the article: “... department spokesman Kevin St. John said Friday.”

The spokesman is named St. John? He better change his name before they fire him!

[rawhide]

http://ffrf.org/index2.php

[AmericaUnited]

"Grieving and vulnerable families should not be ... be told how or what they are expected to believe,"

But essentially that IS WHAT the state is now doing. THOU SHALT NOT WORSHIP IN ANY WAY...

[rawhide]

‘Freedom of religion’ does not mean ‘freedom from religion’. Our nation was founded on judeo-christian beliefs and it should always remain that way.

[AliVeritas]

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[wagglebee]

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[G Larry]

Sing whatever you want to anyway!

What are they going to do? Arrest you?

Good test case for this crazy interpretation of “Congress shall make no law...”

[Diana in Wisconsin]

As I understand it, the event is not sponsored by the state. It is sponsored by a non-profit group to remember victims of murder across our state. Other states are holding vigils, or whatever, too.

These grifters from Freedom FROM Religion (not OF, you’ll note) have latched on to the fact that state employees are invited to attend (not FORCED to) as it’s being held on The Peoples Property at the capitol building and they might want a reason to goof off on the Taxpayer’s dime that day.

If anything, we taxpayers should be rising up and asking why we don’t get our full dollars measure out of State Employees each and every day when we’re paying their wages. :)

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Yep. There ain’t none, LOL! :)

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Thanks for sharing the link. I’m well aware of their shenanigans in this state and others. :(

[madinmadtown]

This attorney general is a true RINO. I keep hearing dems saying how much they like him....and NO one else. He wants to be governor and he has not demonstrated at any time why any republican would vote for him. He has not shown any ideology that is anything other than liberal.

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Yep. I’m pretty disappointed in him as well. He was our ONE GOP “victory” in the last election cycle. Some victory. :(

[mdittmar]

Well maybe they were confused,let's see if we can find the phrase "separation of church and state" in The Bill of Rights shall we;)

[kcvl]

The FFRF was co-founded by Anne Nicol Gaylor and her daughter Annie Laurie Gaylor. Annie Laurie Gaylor is the author of Women Without Superstition : No Gods - No Masters , edits the FFRF newspaper Freethought Today, and serves as co-president with her husband Dan Barker, author of Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist . Dan Barker is a musician and songwriter and a former Pentecostal Christian minister.

The Foundation keeps several challenges in the courts at all times.

Annie Laurie Gaylor's definition of religion – "a belief in a supernatural being who must be worshipped and obeyed as the creator and ruler of the universe, whose dicta are found in so-called sacred writings.

The word "'religion’ takes on a sinister cast when one examines its root, religare, meaning ‘to bind’, which in turn means ‘to hold, to make prisoner, to restrain."

“[Religion is] the source of the greatest violence in the world,” Gaylor said. “More people have been killed in the world for religion over any other reason.”

"‘No Gods – No Masters’ was the motto Margaret Sanger chose for her 1914 publication, The Woman Rebel. Ever since encountering it I have felt is expressed in a nutshell the feminist viewpoint toward patriarchal religion. ‘No Gods- No Masters’ gallantly rejects the master/slave hierarchy of male power over women and supernatural power over all humankind that is ordained in the Jebrew and Christian testaments."

"The writers featured in Women Without Superstition are freethinkers, not necessarily atheists, although that label accurately describes many of them. Freethought means the use of reason in forming opinions abut religion, rather than basing belief on faith, authority or tradition."

Annie Laurie's mother Anne Gaylor, on behalf of the local National Organization for Women.

[donnab]

Its what keeps me going...can you picture it?
who are you? ...I am God but then you think I dont exist so ...seeee yaaaaaa....

[kcvl]

Anne Nicol Gaylor
American Separationist, co-founder, Freedom From Religion Foundation

There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.
-- Anne Nicol Gaylor

Her daughter

[geopyg]

After 9/11 there was a candle-light vigil at our City Hall and hundreds of folks came and sang hymns, prayed and cried. I was happy - and amazed with the Mayor saying a prayer, various preachers, a small church choir, etc. All in a suburb of Seattle. I guess it all happened so quickly that the ACLU, FFR, etc. couldn’t stop it.

[CindyDawg]

They can not stop prayer. All people there have to do is PRAY.

[GingisK]

Your thoughts?

The First Amendment seems to say that there can be no "State Religion", and the government can't rule against religion either.

This means that government entities can't force anyone to participate in religious stuff, and they can't prohibit any practice of religion.

It is wrong for the government to interfere with practices such as these, and they are not supposed to lend support to anyone who would suppress the practice of religion.

Now, on the other hand, nobody should be willing to force the practice of their religion upon those who do not share their faith. Even though I am a Christian, I resented Bible study and prayer in school simply because there were those who made a mockery of it; and, the majority of the people at school were Southern Baptists rather than Lutherans. It is my belief that the practice of religion must be done within groups of like faith. The public practice of religion interferes with other faiths, even when merely a difference in denominations. I was thrilled when Bible study and prayer was prohibited in school because I was no longer under the influence of people not of my own faith.

It is correct and respectful to save these activities for your home and place of worship.