Ancient Topic!
Just adding to the GGG catalog, not pinging.
Posted on 08/05/2007 8:43:29 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
How the U.S. can avoid its own version of the fall of the Roman empire
That is, are we Americans, citizens of the mightiest empire the world has known since the days of the Caesars, living in the last days of our civilization? Is the United States, like the Western Roman Empire in the fifth century, doomed to collapse from its own decadence? Or can we avoid Rome's fate?
(Excerpt) Read more at dallasnews.com ...
| The Philippines was a de facto colony due to racist sentiments among the American people at the time. The Filipinos sought independence from the Spanish, and when the Americans drove the Spanish out (this was during the Spanish-American War), the Filipinos tried to drive out the Americans. The United States did have a point that if the Philippines were given independence, other empires, chiefly the Japanese (already in Taiwan), the British (already in British Malaya), and the Germans (already in Micronesia), would probably try to take it over and not recognize the Philippines as an independent, sovereign country. However, nor did the United States treat the Philippines as it had the many other territories it had before (such as the Louisiana Purchase or Mexican Cessation). People living in the Philippines were not immediately granted American citizenship, although at the time many American officials wanted the Philippines to remain part of the United States as long as the United States existed. Instead, emigration from the Philippines to the United States was greatly limited, and Filipinos were granted the status of American national--which wasn't full citizenship. Eventually, the Philippines was given Commonwealth status and independence was to be given to the Philippines within ten years (1935-1945). This was less altruism than that the Philippines had earlier tried for statehood, and the American people weren't ready for a proportion of their population larger than that of those of African descent becoming 'little brown brethren.' Ostensibly, the Philippines distant was given for it not being given statehood--and yet there were those who wanted the islands to be under American control until the United States was no more. It could be that the Philippines and Hawaii were the only American territories to try for American statehood and be rejected (Hawaii obviously eventually got through--after Alaska, which basically had to get a reasonably large enough population). And why was that? (rhetorical). Ranting aside, the United States did have a de facto empire, but it was puny compared to the British Empire. |
Ooooodles of typos. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk.
The posting police are off today. Mistake as you wish ... we can all use a gud laff.
I'm of the opinion that the American Republic is in danger of leaving its constitutional moorings entirely, as Rome did.
"Greatness"? It is very possible that the American State will become Roman in its ambitions. Nevertheless, mere material power and extension are not greatness.
Would you happen to be a fan of Arnold Toynbee?
I was about to reply to post number 3 until it got “moderated” - this is the second time today I’ve seen that happen.
I remember replying to it; but I can’t remember what whoever it was said. There are a few Freepers that are weird right now. It’s like the want to pick fights. I think some of them really sound like trolls.
It said pretty much what you said but spelled out.
I think Gaius Marius implemented many military reforms that probably save Rome from being overrun by Barbarians. The history of the First Century AD was Rome’s transition from an overgrown city state to an empire. Its Republican government elected two Consuls (Generals and effective heads of state) for one year. Marius broke the tradition of not repeating as Consul (seven times-he did great with the first six-the seventh was a disaster). Later Sulla became dictator for several years, although he later retired. This was a double edged sword. Republican leadership was frequently pathetic. Consuls were incompetent or ineffective. Of course, Julius Caesar’s rise to power eventually caused the destruction of the Republic. Caesar was a very effective leader and expanded the Empire to include modern day France, Belgium and parts of Holland and Germany. However, with that and the civil war that followed his assassination, Augustus was able to collect all the Republican powers in one man.
To compare this to the United States is difficult, since our republic has probably endure two strong man challenges (Lincoln and FDR). Lincoln saved the Republic, but changed it for ever. The 10th Amendment means nothing today. The Federal Government became all powerful. Later FDR increased the power of the Federal Government to institute institutional changes that allows government to manipulate our lives, our economy with a huge mega state. LBJ added to this power grab.
I suppose FDR would be our Augustus, Clinton a mix of Caligua and Tiberius (no Tiberius was too good for Clinton).
It may be that the rotten Roman State in the 5th Century was not inevitable in the First Century BC, just as a rotten USA is not inevitable despite indications of decay in our moral and civic virtue.
Consider the Kennedys as equivalent to the Gracchi.
If that were the case, then we still await Marius, perhaps in the form of the next Democratic President.
Then Sulla.
We’re some distance from Augustus, imho.
There is lots of history to go around; most of it miserable, that’s for sure!
It would be out of order, but Clinton (Slick) could compare with Sulla’s perverted life, but Clinton was not a successful General.
Hillary could compare with Augustus’ wife Livia.
Hate to say it, but we are a modern Rome. Some historian made a list of 22 factors that lead to the fall of Rome. He then compared the state of the US to Rome’s state before falling. The US has 19 of those factors. Among them were a huge desire for entertainment and a failure to protect the defenseless. Sounds like Americans today with legalization of abortion and euthanasia and a mall-and-movie theater lifestyle. The US will eventually fall. We are divided against ourselves, left vs. right, white vs. black vs. Hispanic vs. Muslim, etc. We no longer view ourselves as a nation, we’ve become Balkanized into groups fighting amongst each other. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Every superpower in history, whether good or bad, has fallen—Rome, Britain, USSR...the US is next.
Ancient Topic!
Just adding to the GGG catalog, not pinging.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
