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Calif. gun bill leads the way (barf alert)
Denver Post ^ | 01 june 07

Posted on 06/01/2007 10:08:10 AM PDT by rellimpank

The California state Assembly Tuesday voted to require all new semi-automatic pistols sold in the state to automatically stamp information on shell casings that could help police track down violent criminals.

The California measure, which still has to pass the state Senate, marks an intriguing new development in the war against crime because, unlike some gun-control measures, it doesn't restrict law-abiding citizens' ability to own or carry firearms. Instead, the measure would require that all new semi-automatic pistols sold in California after 2010 contain a microscopic laser etching that will stamp the gun's make, model and serial number on at least two places on the shell casing of a bullet every time the weapon is fired

(Excerpt) Read more at denverpost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist
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---The Dummer Pest opines---
1 posted on 06/01/2007 10:08:10 AM PDT by rellimpank
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To: rellimpank
help police track down violent criminals.

So what happens when they find them?
2 posted on 06/01/2007 10:09:55 AM PDT by P-40 (Al Qaeda was working in Iraq. They were just undocumented.)
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To: rellimpank

Someone explain to me what’s wrong with this legislation. Ballistics is used to match a gun to an owner, why not be able to match a bullet or shell casing to a gun owner? Even if it’s just to confirm that a gun has been stolen, doesn’t this speed the investigation along? Or is this considered to be registration, a prelude to confiscation?


3 posted on 06/01/2007 10:10:32 AM PDT by domenad (In all things, in all ways, at all times, let honor guide me.)
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To: rellimpank
*sigh*

I predict the sale of $2 diamond files to gang bangers will skyrocket if this passes. Don't miss your chance to ride the next big investment wave....

4 posted on 06/01/2007 10:11:11 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: rellimpank

How the heck do you even DO something like that? Engrave it in the barrel?

}:-)4


5 posted on 06/01/2007 10:11:19 AM PDT by Moose4 (Deport 'em. I don't need landscaping and I'll pay more for lettuce.)
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To: domenad

Whats wrong is, it wont work..Its just another hair brained idea designed to make it more difficult for people to buy guns in Kali.


6 posted on 06/01/2007 10:13:18 AM PDT by Armedanddangerous (Master of Sinanju (emeritus))
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To: domenad
Instead, the measure would require that all new semi-automatic pistols sold in California after 2010

Basically it is a gun ban by requiring technology that doesn't exist.

7 posted on 06/01/2007 10:14:06 AM PDT by beltfed308 (Rudy: When you absolutely,positively need a liberal for President.)
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To: Moose4
According to this the brass gets stamped. So, if you don't pick up your brass at the range, every single one, and it's swept up and reloaded (possibly more than once) and they used in a crime .... Manufacturers should just SAY NO and boycott California. In particular they should stop servicing guns from California agencies if this travisty passes.

Having this State in the Union is not a neutral thing that only effects them. The idiot Dems running Oregon and Washington appear to slavishly follow even the bad trends that begin in Cali.

BLOAT!

8 posted on 06/01/2007 10:15:16 AM PDT by Jack Black
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To: domenad
Ok, lets say you go to the range and shoot a few boxes of ammo and don't police up all your brass. (the range I shoot at ask you to leave it BTW)
A couple of gang bangers then spreads YOUR brass at a shooting scene so he can cover his tracks. The police come to your house and take your gun for testing, and heaven help you if ballistics say its a possible match.

The criminal had spent $2 for a fine diamond file and has immediately filed the hardened stamps smooth on his weapon, so you become the police's #1 suspect.

9 posted on 06/01/2007 10:16:19 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: rellimpank
unlike some gun-control measures, it doesn't restrict law-abiding citizens' ability to own or carry firearms.

So adding to the expense of owning a gun isn't a restriction?

Also, these measures are easily defeated with inexpensive hand tools, or revolvers will suddenly become fashionable with the gangstatistas.

10 posted on 06/01/2007 10:16:39 AM PDT by Disambiguator
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To: rellimpank
what criminal is going to buy a gun like this? I really don't think most criminals run to a gun store to buy a new weapon. I would think that most of thier weapons come off of the streets.
11 posted on 06/01/2007 10:16:40 AM PDT by JRP0322
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To: rellimpank
The Governator better veto this one! Yeah, but I’m not going to hold my breath, better buy now before its too late.
12 posted on 06/01/2007 10:18:59 AM PDT by chaos_5 (1-800-882-2005 Amnesty Hot-line!)
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To: domenad

First of all, this technology doesn’t even exist.

Second, I can guarantee that it will be EXPENSIVE.

Third, what crook is going to use a gun with such technology?

Fourth, since it is “laser etched” just take the battery out.

Fifth, Just pick up a few casings at any gun range and throw them down at the crime scene.

Sixth, yes, it is registration.


13 posted on 06/01/2007 10:19:10 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: domenad
Someone explain to me what’s wrong with this legislation.

Like all gun control legislation, it will impact the law-abiding while not affecting criminals. This technology won't be cheap. Meanwhile, criminals will either disable it or make sure they have older weapons.

14 posted on 06/01/2007 10:20:45 AM PDT by dirtboy (A store clerk has done more to fight the WOT than Rudy.)
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To: rellimpank
So, pretend I'm a Kali criminal.

I go find once lasered brass,...for my pre-2010 pistola. Get the brass reloaded..and viola, for a bit I've pinned the murder/shooting on some poor smuck.

15 posted on 06/01/2007 10:20:51 AM PDT by Osage Orange (Gun exchange programs would work great if they gave you a gun when you handed in a criminal.)
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To: JRP0322
Of course they do, but it is still something that if he gets caught with will pin the gun to him.

You can alter the ballistics of a bullet by simply honing the barrel after you fire it, changing the distinctive scratches from the last bullets fired. This will only be a way of tracking stolen guns from stupid people and returning them to their owners before they get the stamps filed smooth.

16 posted on 06/01/2007 10:21:46 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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To: domenad

Problems with this:

1. It’s stupidly easy to defeat, and adds a LOT of extra cost to the production of a firearm. Many makers will refuse to make a California-only version of a firearm, so this will reduce the number of guns available to the law abiding in CA. This, of course, is the goal of the legislation - not crime prevention. See next point.
2. Much like the barrel leaves unique impressions on the bullet, the chamber, firing pin, and extractor all leave unique markings on the expended casing. Some states have a “ballistic fingerprint database” now, where all new guns must come with a fired casing for the police to scan and enter into their database. Makers don’t have a problem with this, as they proof-fire the weapon anyway. Here’s the point, though - some states have had this “law enforcement tool” for a decade now. It has cost their taxpayers millions of dollars. Care to guess how many crimes have been solved through the ballistics fingerprinting databases? Zero.
3. Let’s say you want to frame a close associate for murder. You and he go shooting at a range, and his gun is spitting out empties microstamped with its unique information. You surreptitiously save a few of his expended shells. Later, you shoot the victim with a similar model gun in the same caliber, pick up your expended shells, and dump the framee’s empties on the ground. Easy frame, and most DAs and police will look no further, because, after all, the microstamped ballistics don’t lie, right?

Also, I’m certain that the gangbangers will be going to ranges and pocketing empties to leave at crime scenes as distractions/diversions for the police - there’s been at least two incidents where that’s happened in ballistic fingerprinting states, both times to cops.

Do you see the problems now?


17 posted on 06/01/2007 10:26:04 AM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: domenad

18 posted on 06/01/2007 10:28:48 AM PDT by keat (You know who I feel bad for? Arab-Americans who truly want to get into crop-dusting.)
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To: rellimpank
Ted Kennedy wants to introduce this in the Senate. Teds car was registered and Mary Jo STILL died didn’t she?
19 posted on 06/01/2007 10:28:57 AM PDT by hophead ("Enjoy Every Sandwich")
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To: Blood of Tyrants

As a tool and die maker I can say that yes, the technology exists, and is actually quite simple to do. When you fire the gun the shell casing inside the chamber expands from the pressure and presses on the chamber walls. A series of sharp electroplated carbide code dots on the chamber walls will imprint the numbers on the casing side, and of course having the firing pin can be etched as well to leave them.


20 posted on 06/01/2007 10:29:51 AM PDT by Abathar (Proudly catching hell for posting without reading the article since 2004)
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