Did the U.S. Contribute in ANY Possible Way to Islamists' Attitudes Prior to 9/11?

Self | 5/16/2007 | DC Wright

[dcwusmc]

This is a question which requires a lot of thought and introspection. I realize and understand that many of you are pure knee-jerk, but try. Did the United States and the Federal Government in ANY way contribute to 9/11? Were our policies in the mid-east in any possible way factors which allowed a nutjob like Osama Bin Awful to recruit moonbats who were and are willing to die to kill "infidels," whether in the U.S. or overseas? If you say "no,' I ask for clear evidence to back you up. If you say "yes," then to what DEGREE did our policies contribute to 9/11 and subsequent attacks and attempted attacks? Which policies and why?

This is in no way to excuse what happened, of course. But to many of you here, it seems we were pure as the driven snow and 9/11 happened out of thin air and is totally inexplicable in terms of our own government's past actions and policies. Since the roots of it go back to Clinton and beyond (I would say at least to Jimmy the Peanut, myself, perhaps sooner), this does NOT constitute Bush-bashing, as some others are wont to claim (again, a kneejerk reaction).

It is my considered opinion that MANY of our presidents have thought so highly of themselves that they could consider that THEY, alone, held all the answers to all the factionalism and all the troubles in the Middle East. That they could, by virtue of their own personalities and whatever, overcome CENTURIES of fighting, infighting, atrocities and counter-atrocities by all these Arabs and Persians and even the Jews. (It seems that throughout history, MOST societies have scapegoated the Jews for all their ills.) Add the witches' brew of Mohammedanism to an already-backwards culture and we have semi-literate people with hair-triggers who WANT to believe the worst about outsiders, Jew OR Gentile. Then give them even the least bit of fact to bite on and a nutcase like Osama can wind up with scores of thousands of wanna-bee martyrs. And WE fell into that trap. When we took sides in their fratricidal civil wars. Even when we abandoned an "ally" and then allowed him into our country for medical treatment... one group took things one way, another took things THEIR way and now it seems we have the three main sects of that false religion after us.

Let me clarify now that I am a fervent supporter of Israel and the Jewish People, God's Chosen. However, I am NOT a supporter of GOVERNMENT AID to Israel. Besides the very questionable constitutionality of it, the aid comes with, in my opinion, way too many strings which inhibit Israel from mounting a proper defense of herself when needed. Also it gives American presidents, who are already too full of themselves, an arrogance that THEY ALONE can surmount the hatreds and ill wills that drive the Muslim countries to want to see Israel eradicated and all the Jews of the world exterminated.

The main problem as I see it is that if we refuse to look beyond our own prejudices and biases to the FACTS, we will LOSE our country and our culture. If we choose to blindly follow dangerous or misguided or even evil policies and policy makers, we will wind up with NOTHING of the once-free nation handed off to us by the Founders. I even sometimes do it, then I have to actually THINK for myself. Mostly I come down on the side that says that the people who attacked us and who continue to act like a plague upon the land should be wiped slick from the earth. However, I often strongly question the MEANS for doing that... and I question the WILL of the Bushites to WIN the war on terrorists and their sponsoring countries. I also have trouble with the name of this: The Global War on Terror. Terrorism is a TACTIC used by those who are too cowardly to come up against an opposing force on an even footing. It is also SPONSORED by certain nations who would see us done ill, but who want to keep their own hands "clean." Thus, there can be NO "war on terror," and it is the semantics which get in the way of WINNING, because there is no way to determine when or if you HAVE won. This is why I, along with others (including a presidential candidate who shall remain nameless), am convinced that we should have had a declaration by the Congress that specifically stated that a state of war exists between the United States and al-Qaeda, the Taliban and any nation which supports or harbors them. That way we would have mobilized our national resources, went on an actual WAR-footing and committed our country and our people and our resources to WINNING this thing instead of having it now to be used as a political football by the Left and the chickenhawks on the right.

So, in hindsight, COULD we have taken a different path years back that would NOT NECESSARILY have led to 9/11? Or are we as pure as the driven snow and those nutballs just up and decided to attack us because they could get away with it?

[ishabibble]

2bananna makes excellent points with regard to Islam, but if you want my opinion on Muslim Jihad, I would say that they watched events unfold during the Gulf War and decided that our humanity was our weakness. One hundred hours may have been enough for us, but it was not enough for Islamofacism. We should have rolled over Iraq then, beheaded Saddam and put his head on a pike at the city gates. We should have crushed the life out of the jihad then, and the Kuwaitis and the Kurds would have been stalwart allies forever and OBL and his bunch would have slunk back into their caves in Afghanistan.

That did not happen and the first President Bush was defeated by a weakling called Slick. TWA 800 or OKC? Who knows? But we do know about the Embassies, the USS Cole, and Khobar Towers. All unanswered by a smooth talking coward. OBL sent us warnings, all ignored by the glitzy Clinton administration. What Bush 41 did was an error in judgment. What the Clinton Administration did was to bare the neck of the American people to the Muslim sword.
It is a testament to the careless nature of the American people that neither the Clintons or their staff are not in prison for what they did to this country.

[Philistone]

Let me respond this way:

Was the Muslim push into Iberia and then France (stopped by Charles Martel at the Battle of Tours in 732) caused in any way by US activities?

Was the Muslim push into Europe (stopped only at the Battle of Vienna in 1683) caused in any way by US activities?

Did US tributes to Barbary Pirates (which, in the end, did not keep them from taking US ships and sailors hostage) in 1784, 1789, and 1801 having anything to do with the current situation?

How far back do you have to go to find justification? Heck, while the French Crusaders were ineffectively trying to retake the Holy Land, MY Anglo-Saxon ancestors were busy raping and pillaging the Celts. Don’t hear the Celts whining about it 800 years later...

[sonic109]

Sounds like Hitler’s 3 main points , only different locations>

[Stultis]

At the time of the 9/11 attack, we were spending something like $100 million in Afghanistan trying to improve the life of the people there.

$173,588,887 just in FY 2001, to be exact. See:

Afghanistan: Complex Emergency Situation Report #1 (US aid BEFORE 911) September 6, 2001 ^
	Posted by Stultis On News/Activism ^ 12/24/2002 8:26:23 AM CST · 3 replies · 211+ views United States Agency for International Development ^ | 6 September 2001 Afghanistan - Complex EmergencySituation Report #1 (FY 2001)September 6, 2001 U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT (USAID)BUREAU FOR HUMANITARIAN RESPONSE (BHR)OFFICE OF U.S. FOREIGN DISASTER ASSISTANCE (OFDA)Situation Report #1, Fiscal Year (FY 2001), September 6, 2001   BackgroundTwo decades of war in Afghanistan, including a decade-long Soviet occupation and ensuing civil strife, have left Afghanistan impoverished and mired in an extended humanitarian crisis. Government infrastructure, including the ability to deliver the most basic health, education, and other social services, has completely collapsed. Most resources are directed to the war effort. Severe restrictions by the Taliban, including a restriction on women...

[azhenfud]

So as not to repeat a post, go to link and follow discussion closely.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1834614/posts?page=48#48

[holfen123]

“Nothing justifies rape, even if the girl is wearing a miniskirt and is in your hotel room. But it would be STUPID for a girl to go into a guy’s hotel room alone, especially wearing sexy clothes. That’s asking for trouble.”

Gosh, looked what I missed by not going to law school.

Your legal analogy is “unique.”

LOL

[jude24]

Gosh, looked what I missed by not going to law school.

Apparently, you never learned any kind of argument other than an ad hominem.

[sonic109]

He COULDN’T would be more like it (fraud that he is )

[delphirogatio]

I agree that we do not fight wars as though we “mean it.” We never really seem to CRUSH the enemy anymore. And, with a religiously fanatical enemy, fully prepared to die inorder to force his/her views on others? The only answer is to crush them and their means to make war against you. It is the only way....IMHO

[Just another Joe]

My own personal thinking on this -

It would not have mattered what we did decades ago (Jimmy the peanut), just by existing, having a republican form of government, giving our women the same rights as men, it is enough to enrage the islmaofiscists.

They look at our way of life (admittedly there are things wrong with our society, but not to the point of murdering thousands just because of it), the fact that, in the majority, we lead nice lives (we have enough to eat, roofs to cover our heads, beds with blankets, running water, flush toilets, etc), and they are jealous!
They want no more than to bring us down to their level of life.

They see the USA NOT living under sharia law, they see Americans living life to the fullest and they WANT WHAT WE HAVE, knowing that they can never have that as long as they continue to live in backward, dictator driven countries, that pay no attention to their citizens, will not educate their citizens OR their women (Marie Cure, where would you have been in Islam?), and continue to have over 90% of their population in poverty while making googleillions in oil money, and instead of blaming their own governments they see the "Great Satan" (as they've been told by their religous leaders for decades) that needs a taking down.

Are we pure as the driven snow? No

Have we done anything that warrants attacks for decades culminating in 9-11? No.

[sonic109]

The hardest enemy to fight is one who is just fine with killing himself to get to you . We better wake up FAST !

[Spirochete]

Mohammed

Allah's Apostle was asked, "What is the best deed?" He replied, "To believe in Allah and His Apostle (Muhammad). The questioner then asked, "What is the next in goodness? He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause." The questioner again asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To perform Hajj Mubrur."

Jesus

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?" "The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

[Abathar]

Good post, now I’m going to have to reread The DaVinci Code to prove you wrong... /s

[delphirogatio]

Then you’ll just have to beat them to it.

I’m not trying to be provocative, but d@mn, I can’t figure another way around it.

[cripplecreek]

Just a look at the history of islam going back before there even was a USA tells us all we need to know. Islam has always been bent on expansion and domination and we can’t bury our heads in the sand deep enough to make them go away.

[hinckley buzzard]

The question raises issues of causality as well as the implication of accountability. The two issues are different, and we need to take care not to conflate them. Clearly, in an interconnected world, any action will have an influence on the actions, and 'attitudes,' of others. No doubt we did things which pissed off islamic radicals. This in no way implies these actions were illegitimate or shouldn't have been taken. These people objectively are primitive savages who fly into rages at the most ridiculous of offenses. We "contribute" to their attitudes, for example, by being a Judeo-Christian "infidel" nation. They erupted in murder and violence over a set of cartoons. Most anything we do is going to be twisted into some casus belli for the jihadis.

Having said that, I also do not think this question is as important as you apparently do. The fat's in the fire, and the most important question is what to do now to beat the enemy into submission. Pawing over the past won't put the genie back in the bottle, nor will it help us ever discover a way to cajole the enemy out of his culture of death.

[gedeon3]

Ignorant, insecure, self loathing. Calling your posting names? Yes. I am tired of tearing to pieces the arguments of self loathing, insecure people; only to face the next one who has the same weakness. It is not worth more than 5 lines of words.

[Sleeping Beauty]

Are you sure you meant to post a response to me?

I am not participating in this discussion.

(But, in case you are, I am a war strategist. I don’t look back in a chess game — if I want to prevail, I look forward. The correct question is — what direct repercussions could the American people suffer as a result of our invasion of Iraq, and at what intensity, and where? I must look at this fearlessly if I am to protect them. We live in a universe governed by the effects of action-counter-reaction.)

[VRWCmember]

We supported Israel’s right to exist. We defended Israel’s right to exist at the UN. We supported Israel in various aspects of our foreign policy. We opposed Saddam Hussein’s agression against Kuwait in 1991, and liberated Kuwait from his control.

Those are the policies and actions that have been cited as reason for the jihadis to hate us. Beyond that, the fact that we as a nation have not subjugated ourselves to an Islamic caliphate makes us infidels in the eyes of the jihadis that follow Bin Laden and his ilk. 9/11 did not spring out of thin air; it was simply the most horrific in a series of acts of terroristic war that the jihadis have committed against us since the 1970’s.

If you want to accept some blame for their hatred because of your unwillingness to subjugate yourself to Islamic rule, then be my guest. As for me, I say the responsibility for this jihad lies squarely with the islamofacists that hate us.

[tacticalogic]

We brought 20th century ideas and technology into a 12 century culture and mentality, and they aren’t ready for civilization. Granted it had to happen sometime, and if it wasn’t done by us it would have been someone else. I think we’d still get blamed for it, because we’re responsible for most of it’s existence.