Giuliani as the GOP presidential nominee would be a dagger in the heart of the conservative movement

(From a thread) | Credit to Spiff for the chart and flashbunny for the grapics

[Jim Robinson]

Giuliani as the GOP presidential nominee would be a dagger in the heart of the conservative movement (and a knife in the back).

The only difference in a Liberal Rudy Giuliani and Liberal Hillary Clinton is the fact of which bathrooms they select to use and there are some who are willing to even question that.

Giuliani/Clinton/Dem vs. GOP Platform Comparison
Issue	Giuliani	Clinton	Dem Platform	GOP Platform
Abortion on Demand	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Partial Birth Abortion	SupportsOpposed NY ban	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Roe v. Wade	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Taxpayer Funded Abortions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Embryonic Stem Cell Research	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Federal Marriage Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Defined at state level	Supports
Gay Domestic Partnership/ Civil Unions	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Openly Gay Military	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Defense of Marriage Act	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Amnesty for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Special Path to Citizenship for Illegal Aliens	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Tough Penalties for Employers of Illegal Aliens	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes	Supports
Sanctuary Cities/ Ignoring Immigration Law	Supports	Supports	Supports	Opposes
Protecting 2nd Amendment	Opposes	Opposes	Opposes Supports bans	Supports
Confiscating Guns	Supports Confiscated as mayor. Even bragged.	Supports	Supports Supports bans	Opposes
'Assault' Weapons Ban	Supports	Supports	Supports
Frivolous Lawsuits Against Gun Makers	Supports Filed One Himself	Supports		Opposes
Gun Registration/Licenses	Supports	Supports		Opposes
War in Afghanistan	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports	Supports
War in Iraq	Supports	Supports Voted for it	Supports Weak support	Supports
Patriot Act	Supports	Supports Voted for it 2001 & 2006	Opposes	Supports

[af_vet_rr]

If the three candidates on the ballot are Rudy Giuliani, Hillary Clinton, and Constitution Party guy who cries because he can't get into the debates, and you vote for anyone besides the GOP nominee you are giving implicit support to Hillary and possibly allowing a third Clinton presidency without 50% of the vote.

Voting for a liberal is still voting for a liberal, regardless of whether their last name is Clinton or Giuliani.

As a matter of fact, you are rewarding somebody like Giuliani, and you are sending a message to the GOP to push more liberal candidates if you blindly support non-Conservative candidates.

I don't want a Clinton presidency either (and I seriously doubt she'll be the nominee), but at the same time I don't want the GOP to think it's alright to keep feeding us liberal candidates. Losing in 2006 should send a fairly clear sign. I would hate that we have a Democrat in the White House with 2008's election, but if it meant we got a Conservative back in, in 2012 rather than people like Giuliani, then I don't mind us losing an election cycle.

If the GOP drops this liberal crap and we get a Conservative candidate in 2008, then everything will be marginally better (it'll be much better when we get an actual Conservative Congress).

[MamaB]

Thanks for posting this. We do not need a liberal in the White House.

[Cyber Liberty]

We get a good, conservative candidate for President and we’ll get a good House. Don’t know about the Senate, we blew it when we had the chance to get Toomey.

[MamaB]

He is a NE liberal and we should never support him.

[RWR8189]

Obama is a sideshow on the path to Hillary’s corination in Denver, no one will stop her from getting the nomination.

I don’t want to have to bite my tongue and vote Giuliani, but if I have to I will, and only for one reason, and that is the Global War on Terrorism.

Hillary or whichever clown they nominate cannot be trusted with the lives of our brave troops serving overseas, and I will walk on broken glass to ensure that women does not become president.

The war on Islamofascism cannot wait four years so we can make a point of principle.

[Gumlegs]

Your original post to this thread stated this ...

Before reading this important thread I had no idea Gouliani was such a foul, despicable person. It is important that you inform all of us who might generally be unaware of his vile unconservative actions the impact his left leaning, anti-family stance would have on the American soul.

... which seems to swallow hook, line, and sinker the most extreme anti-Giuliani positions posted here. Is this because you actually believe them, or because you fear a banning?

I'm simply making a point that some people do not deserve support, of any kind.

Well, that's true. But I'm concerned that in our zeal to refuse to support anyone -- any Republican -- who doesn't deserve it, we might end up supporting someone who deserves it even less. In a passive sort of way, of course, but it would be support.

[rbmillerjr]

“seems to swallow hook, line, and sinker the most extreme anti-Giuliani positions posted here”

...don’t swallow hook, line, and sinker the most extreme Giuliani positions posted here.

There I fixed it.

[Delphinium]

Ha!! I don’t have a camera cord!! I am off the hook!! But I am missing the cable to hook up my printer, so if you find it, I would like that back!!:)

Okay then I won't accuse ya. I'm always losing that kind of stuff.

[upsdriver]

Hi Delphinium!!

Me too!! Well I guess I don’t really lose things, I just can’t find ‘em when I need ‘em!! But they always show up at some point. I need someone to organize things for me!lol Or else just get rid of all the clutter and simplify my life. that would be better!

[rbmillerjr]

Wow, just saw the article on FR that in the California Assembly straw poll - Fred Thompson crushed Giuliani.

1. Fred Thompson: 28 votes

2. Duncan Hunter: 22 votes

2. Mitt Romney: 22 votes

3. Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX): 14 votes

4. Congressman Tom Tancredo (R-CO): 9 votes

5. (tie) Former US House Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA): 8 votes

5. (tie) Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani: 8 votes

6. US Senator Sam Bownback (R-KS): 3 votes
If not mentioned: zero votes

[Delphinium]

I need someone to organize things for me!lol Or else just get rid of all the clutter and simplify my life. that would be better!

Me too, but I like stuff, and it would get that way again, always does.

[devane617]

Some things in life I will never understand...People that make comments like you just did is at the top of the list. Never forget Kathrine Harris...By the way, what is Kathy doing these days?

[COgamer]

I don’t know if I agree that it’s a good idea just to vote based on who you DON’T want to win. If a candidate knows he’ll get your vote no matter what, just because you don’t like the other guy, what in the world reason does he have to actually represent your views? By blindly voting, your surrendering all the power your vote actually represents.

You’re giving away your vote for free, for someone who has no intention of representing you. Thinking like that, you’re giving up your own principles and letting someone else dictate not just how you should vote, but how you HAVE to vote whether you like it or not. And when your vote becomes just a number, with no moral guidance behind it and no objective except just to stop “the other guy”, I think you’re taking our right to vote for granted.

It seems to me like politics has become a sporting event these days... people want their team to win just for the fact that its their team. But it’s not a sporting event, and I just can’t allow my vote to be used against me. We only get one vote, and I’ll be damned if I allow myself to be complicit in the election of someone dead-set on destroying everything I care about. I’d like to think I was telling the truth when I told people about the things I believe in - suporting Giuliani would turn ME into a liar and that’s just something I’m not willing to let happen.

Once we open that door, it’s difficult to close again.

[upsdriver]

Dont be too sure about guilianni carrying ndak. We usually vote conservative on president but it wouldnt be too hard for a Democrat to run to the right of Guilianni. Even at that, tho, we only have three electoral votes so it doesnt really matter.

But if I won’t vote for Rudy in the general, many more in other states won’t either. So my advice is to not nominate him and put up someone who actually can win. A democrat in the white house doesn’t appeal at all to me anymore than Rudy does.

[b_sharp]

"Your original post to this thread stated this ..."

Before reading this important thread I had no idea Gouliani was such a foul, despicable person. It is important that you inform all of us who might generally be unaware of his vile unconservative actions the impact his left leaning, anti-family stance would have on the American soul.

"... which seems to swallow hook, line, and sinker the most extreme anti-Giuliani positions posted here. Is this because you actually believe them, or because you fear a banning?"

Bloody hell, Gummy, you've known me for a couple of years now, do you really believe I say this out of fear of reprisals? Look, there are certain standards for conservatism in general and Republicanism specifically that if not met indicate a lack of moral fibre. Leaders must be exemplars of the values and goals of those that follow them.

You have to ask a simple question: Does the leader instill confidence and represent your fundamental values, yes or no. If not then the leader should not be considered anything more than a blight on the commons.

I'm simply making a point that some people do not deserve support, of any kind.

"Well, that's true. But I'm concerned that in our zeal to refuse to support anyone -- any Republican -- who doesn't deserve it, we might end up supporting someone who deserves it even less. In a passive sort of way, of course, but it would be support.

Sorry Gumlegs, but this leader does not deserve to lead anything more than the intellectually bankrupt, coprolitic walking dead.

[jwalsh07]

Nice post Sharpy.

[af_vet_rr]

Obama is a sideshow on the path to Hillary’s corination in Denver, no one will stop her from getting the nomination.

If she keeps putting on a southern accent around black people, like she did again, I don't think she'll pull it off.

I don’t want to have to bite my tongue and vote Giuliani, but if I have to I will, and only for one reason, and that is the Global War on Terrorism.

To be quite honest, I don't think Giuliani has it in him to do anything other than manage large cities.

The war on Islamofascism cannot wait four years so we can make a point of principle.

The problem is, the current administration has botched it up royally, and only by the grace of God and our troops are things not worse than they are.

Putting aside how the adminstration has handled Iraq and Afghanistan, they have yet to show they are serious about terrorism - my mother has a harder time flying from Houston to Dallas than the illegals crossing the border everyday. One of these days, we are going to find radical Islamics have walked across our border.

[af_vet_rr]

We get a good, conservative candidate for President and we’ll get a good House.

Congress is a tough nut to crack these days - when it comes to the pork, you can't tell Democrats from Republicans, and unfortunately too many Republican voters support the incumbents because they don't want to risk bringing in Conservative newcomers on the off chance they'll lose against Democrats.

[af_vet_rr]

You’re giving away your vote for free, for someone who has no intention of representing you. Thinking like that, you’re giving up your own principles and letting someone else dictate not just how you should vote, but how you HAVE to vote whether you like it or not. And when your vote becomes just a number, with no moral guidance behind it and no objective except just to stop “the other guy”, I think you’re taking our right to vote for granted.

You are also sending the sign to the GOP that moving to the left even more is the way to go. The GOP needs to be put back in their place, i.e., back to what the platform is (or was).

[Gumlegs]

All of this is premature. This entire site is getting its collective knickers in a knot over a potential candidate who may or may not get the nomination. I happen to think Rudy's an extreme long shot given the primary process. However, I am just the teensiest bit uncomfortable joining the pitchfork brigade.

Work against him. Fine. I will, too. But I'm not going to state here and now that I'll die, JUST DIE, if Rudy gets the nomination. As it happens, I grew up in the part of New Jersey that commutes to New York for work. I've always been fascinated with the city (as it was known locally), and Giuliani's administration turned the city from something worse than an open sewer into a place where I'm now comfortable allowing my teenage son to visit without adult supervision. (As I made my first solo excursion into the city when I was 14).

If we were talking about voting for National Moral Exemplar, I'd rule Rudy out. We're not doing that.

In order to win the Second World War, we allied ourselves with ... the Soviet Union. It didn't make us Communist, and it did have the happy result of defeating Mr. Hitler and the Japanese.

Sometimes we have to make ugly choices. Right now, those choices are somewhat down the road. Rudy is not my guy in the primaries, but I'm thinking past that and into the general election. As I stated, I don't think Rudy can get the nomination, but what if he does? Which Dem is better than Rudy to have as President, particularly with the all-too-likely prospect of at least one house of Congress in Dem hands? I am practical enough to recognize this.

Please get a grip.