Posted on 04/17/2007 5:21:32 AM PDT by IrishMike
The entire nation will now collectively mourn one of the great tragedies one can endure: the death of so many of our children.
But a detailed analysis of the facts will also be ongoing. There are many questions from all observers.
It just seems to me, when law enforcement finds two dead bodies on a sleepy university campus in the 7 A.M. hour: they immediately should slam the “Red Alert” button. Yesterday there were some lame remarks about getting out an email (two hours late) and that there wasn’t time to get the word to both lock down the campus and stop the influx of tens of thousands of commuters.
They don’t have radio and TV in Blacksburg, Virginia? If at 7 A.M. a tornado was announced heading for that campus, what would have happen? How about a snowstorm? We had high winds in Washington D.C. this week and the schools were closed three hours early. It was on every radio and TV station in seconds. With that huge force of law enforcement, a good police commander could have closed every road into that campus in no time.
They got radios, cars and flashing lights, don’t they?
Did anyone notice that a bunch of those law enforcement offers were, ahem, chubby?
Law enforcement at Virginia Tech didn’t save one life. They didn’t waste one bullet doing it either. Somebody should be ashamed: law enforcement didn’t fire a shot. The only shooter on that campus got tired after all the mayhem he made.
If my kids name was killed in the classroom after 9 A.M. I am one angry parent.
When is the last time law enforcement found two dead students, murdered students, on that campus during the 7 A.M. hour?
(Excerpt) Read more at johnib.wordpress.com ...
They were hardly laid back. They locked down the dorm, they were interviewing witnesses, they called other RAs and reported and had them knock doors and tell others in nearby dorms to stay put.
If the stories are to be believed, and it’s still speculation, it appears some people they interviewed told them of a vehicle and a person who fled the scene. They persued that lead, caught the vehicle and were talking to the person when the 2nd shooting started.
If you think the shooter is fleeing for the city, you call the city and have THEM lock down, not the campus the shooter is leaving.
And what is a “lock down”? Isn’t it put the kids inside the buildings under supervision? Isn’t that exactly where all the kids were when they were shot, locked inside classrooms with adult supervision?
What if they had actually locked the dorms and forced people to stay inside? Then the gunman would have been in Harper dorm, again with no police presense and nobody with a gun to protect themselves. He could have gone down the hall, shooting the locks off doors and stepping into each room to kill the occupants. With everybody locked in their dorm rooms, nobody would have been able to defend themselves, and if the guy chain-locked the doors, the police would have trouble getting in just like at the classroom.
Of course, he might not have killed quite so many. But if your child was killed by a gunman IN HIS DORM after being forced to stay in the dorm with the gunman, I would imagine you’d be pretty mad about it.
Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.
Let's play a quick game of Liability Insurance Lottery. Step right up all you wronged victims, imagined and real. Those with tangible and intangible injuries. Have ID ready so we know who to make the check out to.
This is the part that bothers me the most. I would think that after 9-11 especially, all colleges, schools, etc. would have some kind of operating/response plan. I wonder how many really do.
This was initiated not by a "lack of procedures," but by a psychotic killer armed with two guns. 20/20 vision only comes from the rear.
If there had "only" been two fatalities on campus, I suspect we would have some talking heads on (admittedly local) news on how campus security could be improved.
I could tell you were a professional . Maybe somebody, some where, will listen. When; we don’t know , but someday all your accomplishments will come to light> Have faith , take it from this witch, they will see someday.Especially since we both know you are right.
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Professional at what?
If he were what he claims to be, he would know that you never lock down an entire community because a murder was committed on the other side of town.
VT is like many large universities, a city within a city.
With most crimes, the cops secure the immediate area which usually means no more than a block, usually much less. The rest of the town goes on as usual and finds out what happened that night when they look at the evening news.
That is what should have happened here.
Cops do not have ESP. They do not prevent crimes. They try to catch the criminal after the fact. If they could prevent crimes, we would not have crime. You should be able to grasp that.
Dead people are found everywhere, everyday. Why should this one have mandated "Red Alert"?
I'm starting to only pester with questions. Sorry.
There was nothing about the 7AM discovery of murder that warranted "Red Alert".
It is heavy, solemn, and hurtful thing to fault another as being responsible for murder. It should be done responsibly; which is not possible the very next day. We don't know anything yet, except journalists/reporters are virtually idiots by definition.
It is heavy, solemn, and hurtful thing to fault another as being responsible for murder. It should be done responsibly; which is not possible the very next day.
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Well said.
A great post.
Asking "what if?" before attempting anything would only stop noble endeavors. Consequences don't seem to weigh on criminals.
It is the morning after. We know nothing about this tragedy yet. Let's hold off the lynch-mob blaming for now.
Some facts about Virginia Tech:
- Campus comprises 100+ buildings on 2600 acres. That’s about 4 sq miles.
- Approximately 26,000 students attend.
For folks who describe VT as a small city, that’s just about right.
So, a shooting occurs in a small city. The first reaction is to “lock down” the entire city?
What does that mean, exactly?
Within this small city, just where should the police respond to, other than the site of the initial crime (which they did)?
I live near Annapolis, MD, which is a comparably-sized city. From time to time, someone murders someone. I’ve yet to see the city “locked down” in the immediate aftermath of a murder.
The city of Blacksburg has 74 full-time employees in its police department. That’s less than one per building of the VT campus. So, you’re going to “lock down” a hundred or more buildings, possibly trapping the murderer inside one of those buildings, along with possibly hundreds of unarmed targets? Without the ability to deploy even a single officer to each building?
Facts will come out in time. Perhaps the police may have been negligent in some way. It’s always a possibility.
However, usually, when a murder is committed, police show up and start investigating. The assumption (and it’s almost always a very good assumption) is that the murderer killed the folks he wanted to kill, and now is intent on getting away. Thus, the police investigate with a mind toward finding someone who wants to hide from them, who wants to flee. The police don’t usually close down entire cities.
AMEN! I was upset when I heard them even use the term “domestic violence” in relationship to a shooting in a college dorm. That term has huge connotations and I wonder when a cop says “domestic violence”, if it has an affect on how he treats the victims, the perpetrator, and the case in general. How dare they even say this in relationship to a woman who is not even living or married to a person—let alone who knows if she was dating him.
Good post.
This was not a community this was a college. There have been incidents on colleges before, have there not been? My own son is a cop. If he were here and not on duty he would say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It is better to air on the side of caution then to have a tragedy like this one. VT IS NO CITY < IT IS A College.Therefore security comes first.My son would tell you himself the shooter had so much time he went back reloaded left a note and went back and killed again. Police can only do so much, what would it have hurt anyone to say shooter on campus , please lock down until word is given. What harm would it have been to stop for one hour, it took him two to reload and give an all clear.BIG deal one class would have to be made up. they do for small things like snow storms don’t they.The man is right.A college is a college. In waiting until after the fact ,my son would tell me i would and could be the next victim. The decision came from the top, to the top goes the blame.
Just about everybody was focused on possible terrorism or fire. I thought tornado activity had an appreciable risk but couldn't get much attention.
That evening an F5 class tornado wiped out the downtown of nearby La Plata, MD.
We wrote a really good section on tornado action the next day!
It's pretty obvious that the "plan" for VT fell apart pretty darned quick in the face of real criminal/terrorist activity. No doubt there are rules against chaining doors shut as there are for discharging weapons in classrooms. Although we can direct most people with rules alone, there's this hard core who are not so gently coerced. We must guard against them, and prepare to repel them if necessary.
Good information,
Thanks.
“This was not a community this was a college.”
Actually, it’s a university comprising:
- 2600 acres (about 4 sq miles)
- 26,000 students
It’s a university, but it’s also a small city.
sitetest
“John E. Carey” is an asshat. He used to post his crap on here before he was banned.
I appreciate & enjoy your thread.
It sadly appears VA Tech had no plans, no procedures and ‘winged it’
We don't know that, and it is poisonous for us advocate condemning others based on that. It is only the next day...we still know nothing.
Yes - there should have definitely been an immediate presumption that the killer was still in the area. EVERY building in the area should have had a squad car or two protecting it and going through it, ASAP. Not after the fact when 33 are dead. That is common sense.
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