OFFICERS WHINE BY EXAMPLE (British Hostage Behavior)

New York Post ^ | 7 April 07 | Ralph Peters

[SkyPilot]

April 7, 2007 -- A SOLDIER'S law in the U.S. Army holds: "The maxi mum effective range of an excuse is zero meters." Yesterday, the two officers on a panel of former British hostages delivered nothing but excuses for their disgraceful conduct.

[SkyPilot]

It pains me to criticize the British. They have performed with bravery and honor. But these 15 deserve our contempt.

Peters went on to say this:

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No matter how codes of conduct for prisoners of war are worded, none countenances voluntary collaboration with the enemy. A POW doesn't have to engage in daily violent resistance, but he's obligated to avoid providing active support to his captors.

The Brit hostages failed the test, and theirs was a failure of leadership. Perhaps the enlisted sailors and Royal Marines can be redeemed, but their officers need to be cashiered. Another ironclad military rule - not always fair, but generally wise - runs that, "An officer is responsible for everything his subordinates do or fail to do." While the two Brit officers, held separately from their sailors and marines, obviously couldn't control every subordinate's actions, the speed with which some enlisted personnel complied with what their captors asked says a great deal about the atmosphere prevailing in the unit.

Queried as to why they agreed to do propaganda broadcasts for the Iranians, neither officer behaved as officers should. The right answer would have been: What we did was wrong. We're ashamed. Instead, we got repugnant swagger and hair-splitting over qualifying adjectives and adverbs - We didn't really say what we said.

Good officers don't whine and dodge.

They accept responsibility.

[billorites]

Oh, no. Not that!

[SkyPilot]

_{OUTRAGE:British Royal Marine Capt. Chris Air (left) and Navy Lt. Felix Carman make excuses yesterday for their crew's propaganda aid to Iran.}

By their own admission, none of the hostages was tortured. While held in solitary confinement early on, they consistently got three meals a day, plenty to drink, blankets and toilet privileges. It's stunning that officers would be so morally weak that, under such mild circumstances, they caved in to their captors virtually overnight. They shamed their country and their services - and encouraged our mutual enemies to believe they can act with ever greater impunity.

[roaddog727]

Disgraceful.

I know a few Brits in the military - One navy commander and my Sensei - former SAS. They would both be appalled and hang their heads in shame and disgust.

[MadAnthony1776]

I don’t have a lot of sympathy or respect for the way these hostages handled themselves. They certainly didn’t look like they had been coerced. I know the the Code of Conduct that we have in the US military expects you to resist to the best of your ability but it also doesn’t expect you to sacrifice your life. You can ask people like Senator McCain what terrible torture they endured. I read a book about the POWs in North Vietnam and the treatment our POWs got would definitely break a person but they resisted as best they could. For all the outrage about Abu Gharib and Gitmo the treatment they receive pales in comparison to the treatment our POWs received at the hands of the North Vietnamese. By all appearances, it looks like their treatment didn’t even reach that level. They have to live with it though. It definitely is not a shining moment for the British military. It does not live up to the proud history of their military.

[SkyPilot]

I agree. I served with a Wing Commander and a Squadron Leader from the RAF (they were exchange officers). They were splendid, brave, and professional.

For the life of me, I cannot fathom why this gang couldn't act with 1/100th of the honor of the men in the British military I know.

Also, I have a feeling the British public feels the same way. There are no parades for them, nor should there be.

The pink "goodie" bags from Iran and the ill fitting shark skinned suits should be their only reward.

[roaddog727]

“The pink “goodie” bags from Iran and the ill fitting shark skinned suits should be their only reward.”

Yep. Their badges of shame.

[GAB-1955]

I have heard undercurrents from recently retired officers in the UK that they are disgusted with the behavior of the 15 captured sailors and Marines. In a good world, they would all be reprimanded for their pusillanimous behavior. Perhaps they will be.

We hear from British commentators often that the British military thinks the U.S. is crude and coarse and doesn’t know how to work in the Middle East. My response? Our men are not cowards.

[SkyPilot]

I went through Resistance Training at the POW school at Fairchild AFB. For those who don't know - this is a very realistic camp where you are actually captured, interrogated, and imprisoned for a few days to give you a realistic training experience of what it will be like as a hostage or POW. Of course, this is training, and there is education taking place and it is not as bad as the Hanoi Hilton - but it is pretty bad. I never wanted to go through it again.

But, it taught me a lot. They teach you how to resist.

I cannot imagine why these Brits succumbed so quickly. Mock executions? Some friends of mine went through that in Panama. They were captured before JUST CAUSE by Noreiga's thugs. They were taken out in the jungle, stripped, and empty pistols unloaded into their heads. Afterwards, none of them agreed to make a statement denouncing the US.

[Roses0508]

I suspect the officers’ careers are over, don’t you?

[Coldwater Creek]

You can ask Senator McCain just how long he was in captivity before he was disclosing the location of our ships!

[MadAnthony1776]

They should be.

[zook]

Did any of you read about how these soldiers were blindfolded in front of a firing squad? How their captors simulated the sounds of a throat being cut?

I’m not excusing them. But I think that part of the dynamic here had to do with the fact that there was a mother among them, and none could bear the idea that the Iranians would kill her.

Maybe this is an indictment of having women, or at least moms, in these situations.

[ClaireSolt]

Why be heroic? The antiwar movement has denied heros their due in this age of relativism when anything goes.

[MadAnthony1776]

I can’t imagine what the training is like. I’m lucky that I don’t have that requirement for my job. It probably wouldn’t hurt that everyone in the military be given some training because you never know when you might get grabbed. Just because you’re not on the front lines or a pilot doesn’t mean you couldn’t be grabbed. At least those that get the training are given some tools to help them resist. I would have to hope that I would be capable of resisting if I ever were captured.

[zook]

That is an excellent point. Society no longer wants to raise boys with what it takes to become war heros.

[txzman]

Unfortunately, this motely crew just demoted their military to the level of the French. I can imagine there are many in GB’s armed forces who want this to go away as soon as possible.

[KenmcG414]

The Brit sailors and marines are nothing more than a reflection of the lib majority in their own government. This incident also points out the problems when you have women in the front lines. Winston Churchill i turning over in his grave.

[lormand]

In the hostage camp, how did you feel when you heard the American anthem and saw your flag being raised at the end?

Do they still do that part?

I worked with a former F14 Navigator who went through the same training.

Thank you for your service sir.