Is Driving Rinos out of the GOP Good for the Country? Thought-Provoking Must-Read for Rudy-Haters.

FR | April 16, 2002 | Common Tator

[Al Simmons]

Wedge Issues Posted by: “Common Tator” in FreeRepublic.com April 16, 2002

The one thing that amazes me on this site is the belief by some that the conservative position is the majority position.

Mostly people tend to believe it could be the majority position if the right candidate ran, or if it weren't for the media or RINOs or etc, etc. They really don't have a clue.

Roughly 2/3 of the public has firm views. They have made up their minds and do not change them. This group is nearly equally split between the left and the right.

There are about a 1/3 of the population that is never sure. Sometimes it will go left and sometimes it will go right.

When a party restricts itself to its base it will be in a minority party. The "base only" party will be reduced to crying as the other side works its will. In some nations both the left and right restrict themselves to just their base. That nation then develops five or six parties. And all governments in that nation are coalitions of a major party and some of the minor parties. In that situation the minor party always has more influence than its numbers represent. For the Rino and Dino haters that is the worst of all worlds.

Many of Rino and Dino haters try to make ours a 3 or 4 party system. They never figure out that their splinter right or left party would never get much power in a government based on coalitions. They are too small. It is the centrist parties that have a 1/3 of the public as potential members that get the clout in the Multi Party system. As you can see in a 2 party or a 5 or 6 party system the center tends to prevail.

But in our two party system the center is an instrument the major parties use to enact their goals. In the multiparty system it is the center parties that use the right and left to enact their centrist goals. Such a system like those in Italy and France are RINO and DINO paradise.

This nation now and for all of the last 140 years has been roughly 1/3 left, 1/3 right and 1/3 in the middle. Those in the middle who run for office are what we call RINOs and DINOs.

When Republicans drive RINOs out they leave the party to become DINOs and take their political power with them. The Democrat party gets them by default.

Then the Democrats thanks to its Dino buddies have a veto proof house and senate. It was Barry Goldwater's greatest accomplishment. In my BRAIN I knew Barry would elect a lot of DINOs ... and he did.

If a party with most of the center wins the presidency too, they have a filibuster proof senate. That party then can do anything it wants to do. When the party leadership takes control they implement the parties’ core beliefs. It was what LBJ did after Goldwater drove all the RINOs into LBJ's camp. It let LBJ do the "Great Society." LBJ had to have Barry's help to do it. And Barry did what it took to give LBJ the support he needed... LBJ had all the left. Barry gave him all the center.

To win control a party must keep its base and get over half the middle. If the Republicans have more RINOs than the Democrats have DINOs the Republican agenda prevails. If the Democrats have more DINOs than the Republicans have RINOs the Democrat agenda prevails.

Those that demand the defeat of RINOs are doing all they can to enact the leftist agenda. They are the most valuable asset the left has. One of the most effective tactics in politics in the negative campaign.

Negative campaigns are not about getting votes for your candidate. They are about getting the other side's base to not vote for their candidate. Thus if you can get the right to vote against a Rino or not vote at all, you can elect a very liberal candidate.

If you can force the Republicans to nominate a right wing candidate so right wing he can't get the center voters, you elect the left candidate.

[Delphinium]

Depends on what "record" you read. Are you saying that the video of Rudy saying he does not support the ban on PBA, (with his own mouth) is a lie?

"You people" are gona have a hard time with you candidate because he is proud of the stands he takes and there is plenty of "record".

When he praised Margaret Sanger so enthusiastically before Naral was he lying there too?

Who are you trying to fool? There aren't many of us on FR that are that stupid.

[Fierce Allegiance]

Just because someone has been here a long time, it doesn't necessarly make them a conservative. I've seen a whole lot of people with 7+ years get the boot. Grunt is well on his way. Look at the trolls actions the last couple days if you need an indicator.

[OKIEDOC]

All depends on what conservative principles are defined AS and WHO does the defining.

In our Baptist church we have those who pray long and loud which I am sure impresses the front row crowd.

However, those on the back row get just a little fidgety after about 15 minutes of such hypocrisy.

If what I am reading from some on this forum, is that you can not be a conservative unless you embrace fundamentalism in it's jihidist form then no I would not qualify for that sect of the conservative Republican party.

However, if you define Conservatism as something Fiscal (Not Physical for those anal minded reading this)then I am a died in the wool conservative.

I will with unabashed enthusiasm support any candidate who puts America's survival first.

[Cold Heat]

Same thing has happened to other republican factions who bite off more than they can chew, and try to shove the other aside.

It's a historical fact within the GOP.

This infighting is causing great damage to the coalition and to any possible hopes to regain what was lost, and in the last cycle it contributed directly to the losses in the first place.

It has to stop, and how it stops and what happens to your issues, is your responsibility, not mine. The message is clear.

[Steel Wolf]

I've seen a whole lot of people with 7+ years get the boot.

Getting the boot doesn't mean you lose your Conservative Card. It just means that the particular owner of this board or his appointed reps don't like what you have to say. We've lost a lot of really talented and interesting folk from this board for saying unpopular things.

On the other side of that coin, being the loudest voice in the echo chamber doesn't make you a good conservative, either. Neither does being divisive, especially in a game where the most united side wins.

[Delphinium]

Because someone disagrees with you dose not make them a Troll. As a Freeper told me years ago "Freerepublic..where political debate is a contact sport".

I agree, troll would not be the right term. + it's those on the other side who help us contribute to the debate.

I do take exception to having total lies about my personal life posted on FR because I participate in the full contact sport. There is a huge difference arguing politics and trying to smear anothers reputation with lies.

[EternalVigilance]

Who's conservative principles? The traditional GOP principles, or yours?

As if there's a difference. Pro-life, pro-liberty, pro-family, pro-constitutionally bounded and defined governance. It's really not as complicated as you'd like folks to think it is.

[Fierce Allegiance]

Then it would probably be a good idea if grunt were to shut up!

[OKIEDOC]

Yes, and Reagan's 11th commandment fell by the wayside for two election cycles, and now a third one.
The price for this will be very high indeed.

REPLY:

It seems to me that there are plenty of posters who have forgotten that Reagan at one time was a died in the wool Democrat.

Reagan was head of the Screen Actors which at one time was accused of being associated with Communists.

Personally I would welcome a true conservative but right now (RIGHT NOW) that just will not cut the mustard in American politics.

If the party is smart as those straw voters in South Carolina then they will nominate a Rudy/Hunter or Rudy?Newt for their candidates.

John McCain is a goner in my estimation.

[Al Simmons]

If you don't see Hitlary's hand behind all of the nefarious attempts by the 'Toon to curtail our liberties PRE-1994 eelctions, you are a naive man indeed.

She was the ideological driving force behind him.

[Spiff]

Seems there has been a lot of lying going on by the RudyHaters club

Rudy Giuliani Supports Partial Birth Abortion...Do You?

[GEORGE] WILL: Is your support of partial birth abortion firm?
Mayor GIULIANI: All of my positions are firm. I have strong viewpoints. I express them. And I--I do not think that it makes sense to be changing your position....
ABC News February 6, 2000

---

TUCHMAN: Giuliani was then asked whether he supports a ban on what critics call partial-birth abortions, something Bush strongly supports.
GIULIANI: No, I have not supported that, and I don't see my position on that changing.
- CNN December 2, 1999

---

BLITZER: If you were in the Senate and [President Clinton] vetoed, once again, the [ban on the] so-called partial-birth abortion procedure, you would vote against sustaining that against the -- in favor of the veto in other words, you would support the president on that.
GIULIANI: Yes. I said then that I support him, so I have no reason to change my mind about it.
BLITZER: All right. So the bottom line is that on a lot of these very sensitive issues whether on guns, abortion, patients' bill of rights, taxes, you are more in line with the president and by association, with Mrs. Clinton, than you are against them.
- CNN February 6, 2000

---

MR. RUSSERT: A banning of late-term abortions, so-called partial-birth abortions--you're against that?

MAYOR GIULIANI: I'm against it in New York, because in New York...

MR. RUSSERT: Well, if you were a senator, would you vote with the president or against the president? [Note: President Clinton was in office in 2000]

MAYOR GIULIANI: I would vote to preserve the option for women. I think that choice is a very difficult one. It's a very, very--it's one in which people of conscious have very, very different opinions. I think the better thing for America to do is to leave that choice to the woman, because it affects her probably more than anyone else....

MR. RUSSERT: So you won't change your view on late-term abortion in order to get the Conservative Party endorsement?

MAYOR GIULIANI: It isn't just that. We shouldn't limit this to one issue. I'm generally not going to change my views
- NBC Meet the Press, February 6, 2000

---

***Note: the version of the Partial Birth Abortion Ban that Giuliani opposed in 2000, that he said he supported Bill Clinton in vetoing the Republican-controlled Congress's legislation, contained the exception for the life of the mother that Rudy is now trying to pretend is a prerequisite for his support of it.

Rudy Giuliani Supports Partial Birth Abortion...Do You?

[Cold Heat]

Yeah, McCain has way too much baggage.

The MSM loved him because he was viewed as a thorn in Bush's side, but that all changes when he actually runs.

Personally, I could not vote for him at all. I would be forced to make a protest vote.

He is one french fry short of a happy meal, and I don't want him sitting in the white House for a single minute.

[Blackirish]

I expect you to be an honerable man and to start posting those on the Hunter threads.

[Wormwood]

More Americans killed by illegal aliens than Iraq war, study says

Pointing out one tragic situation does not lessen the tragedy of another situation.

As far as I'm concerned, *both* Iraq and immigration are two big fat failures you can lay at the foot of the current administration. There's plenty of suck to go around.

[trisham]

bookmark

[Admin Moderator]

Enough! Fierce Allegiance and EternalVigilance are not the same poster.

[Dog]

Hey sport....go easy with the insult EV is an ok poster...so go call someone else a troll.

[MHGinTN]

The post to which you refer is a specific to Rudy, using his comments which do appear to contradict his current claims to being against partial birth infanticide. There is no background data to even create such a post on Duncan Hunter because he has always been pro-life and opposed to partial birth abortion.

HOWEVER, the mods ought to say something to Spiff for continuing to block-paste the same graphic even repeating it several times on one thread. Your childish taunting isn't helping the food-fight mentality denigrating our FreeRepublic home.

[trisham]

HOWEVER, the mods ought to say something to Spiff for continuing to block-paste the same graphic even repeating it several times on one thread. Your childish taunting isn't helping the food-fight mentality denigrating our FreeRepublic home.

************

While I was shocked to see the graphic here at first, I'm afraid I don't agree. Perhaps it's time for those who are fine with abortion to see what it really is all about.

[OMalley]

I have no idea what the heck you are talking about LOL but your ignorance is showing!

All these great and thougtful posts and you pick one where i correct a spelling error to acknowledge-just so you can call me stupid? you like picking on little girls?

somehow you come across as the Rudy womens little dog that runs around from thread to thread nipping at the heals of posters, GRRR!

If you are looking for someone to tick off, so you can stand back and whimper how mean we all are. You my dear are barking up the wrong leg.

now go away.....