Is Driving Rinos out of the GOP Good for the Country? Thought-Provoking Must-Read for Rudy-Haters.

FR | April 16, 2002 | Common Tator

[Al Simmons]

I found this thought-provoking piece last night. Since 'Common Tator' has apparently ceased posting on FR, I have taken the liberty of reproducing it here, unabridged.

Frankly, I have never thought about the issues he brings up from the angle he discusses.

And, YES, I have heaped verbal brickbats upon "RINOS" in the past with the same vitriol some of you recently heaped upon me and others who are supporting a Giuliani candidacy for reasons that have been discussed on the Rudy threads.

Please - we do not need a repeat of that here.

This thread is not about Rudy, but about the though-provoking analysis that Common Tator penned above, just before the 2002 election.

So let's refrain from name-calling, and discuss his points rationally.

I hope that is still possible around here.

This is my attempt to return the discussion to a more civilized level.

Lets discuss ideas instead of personalities.

Does he make some good points? I have to admit that I believe he does.

Especially the point that the way to gain power is to include RINOS in the party, knowing that once we have a majority the more conservative party leadership will follow a more conservative course.

Common Tator was definitely correct about one thing: The 'Rats learned this lesson long ago - as we just saw in 2006; they elected a bunch of new 'DINOS' like Jim Webb - who will give the true leftists the majority votes to implement the leftists agenda.

Seems to me it wasn't so long ago that RR basically did the same thing for the conservatives - in his first term to be precise.

It seems to be a historical lesson lost on some of the "I'll take my marbles and go home if I don't like a candidate crowd."

I'll repeat what I said earlier - until 2006 I was as equally dismissive of the RINOS as any of you were.

Could it be, however, that we got so complacent with our electoral successes, 1994-2004, that we lost sight of the forest for the trees?

Kindly ping whoever you believe would be interested in this discussion.

And lets try to get this thread as much attention as the flame-throwing threads we've seen lately - and right the tone of discourse here on FR for everyone.

Once again, if you come here to continue the verbal donnybrook of the other threads, you're doing a disservice to FR.

Please lets discuss these point rationally.

Thank you.

[TommyDale]

You could also ask "IS DRIVING CONSERVATIVES OUT OF THE GOP GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY? THOUGHT-PROVOKING MUST-READ FOR RUDY-LOVERS."

[Al Simmons]

Hi Jim. Last night I found this post by Common Tator quite accidentally. I thought it could really help to elevate the debate after the last two Rudy threads. Hope you agree with the need to return the conversation to a less heated tone around here.

Lets discuss the ideas he submits for consideration instead of personalities.

I don't keep ping lists, but I'd wager most of the folks on the earlier threads would find this one of interest (or irritation ;>)

So feel free to ping whoever you think might want to chime in.

Thanks as always.

[SF Republican]

Amen Amen Amen

[b4its2late]

Great post. It is thought provoking and makes sense. Common Tator's last post was about a month ago. Hopefully he'll be around. I enjoy reading his posts.

[cripplecreek]

Why is it that everyone wanting to appease or retreat calls their opinion the rational or sane answer?

[b4its2late]

ping

[Always Right]

So let's refrain from name-calling, and discuss his points rationally.

Yeah, I hate when people name-call like using 'Rudy-Haters' or something. I hope this thread does not deteriorate into that....

[W04Man]

Great Post, Al, I'm sending it to my "RINO hater" local Republican committee today!

[MadIvan]

Some additional data. This data indicates that the American public identifies itself as 36% conservative, 41% moderate and 18% liberal. Any viable Presidential candidate is going to have to make inroads into the moderate vote. Happily, the task for a Republican is less difficult than a Democrat who has to convince many more moderates he's not a moonbat.

Regards, Ivan

[Al Simmons]

I never heard of common tator before last night, but about a month ago signed off for personal reasons saying he'd never come back. Whatever that may have been about, the above piece is a thought-provoking gem - instead of a regurgitation of one side or the other we normally see around here.

Well, its off to work know. Wonder how many posts I'll have to reply to tonight?? #:-0

[EternalVigilance]

Common Tator was a precursor to the Rooty Tooty Fresh 'n Fruity crowd.

I'm not surprised you'd find common cause with him.

Are you sure you're not him?

[Al Simmons]

"Yeah, I hate when people name-call like using 'Rudy-Haters' or something."

Ummm....two points:

a. That title is called a "Hook" to get you 'in' to take a look, and

b. There are some posters on the other threads to whom that moniker fits like a glove.

But lets stick to the ideas of this piece, at least on this thread, please.

[TSchmereL]

ping

[B Knotts]

This nation now and for all of the last 140 years has been roughly 1/3 left, 1/3 right and 1/3 in the middle.

This part is untrue. People self-identify as conservatives at a rate nearly double that of liberals.

To win control a party must keep its base and get over half the middle.

Well, duh.

The question is: can you keep the base with a candidate the base finds abhorrent?

It's all a question of balance, so you have to find a consensus candidate who can appeal to the various wings of the party. It would seem to me, and many others, self-evident that Giuliani cannot be that person, but many still believe he can.

[Always Right]

Happily, the task for a Republican is less difficult than a Democrat who has to convince many more moderates he's not a moonbat.

Except that moonbats are far more at ease with lying to promote their agenda, so in that way it is far easier for a Democrat to pretend to be a moderate.

[Al Simmons]

"Common Tator was a precursor to the Rooty Tooty Fresh 'n Fruity crowd. I'm not surprised you'd find common cause with him. Are you sure you're not him?"

?????????????????????

[johnny7]

LOL.

Hey... this guy's trying to “right the tone of discourse here on FR for everyone.”

[JustaDumbBlonde]

Not that it matters ... but I don't hate Rudy. I believe that he is probably a very nice person and I would love to have him over to dinner -- I think he would be a very interesting person.

The fact that I do not want Rudy to be President of the United States does not make me a Rudy-Hater, or a hater of any kind. It does make me a principled conservative, not willing to compromise that which I will have to answer for in the next life.

[areafiftyone]

Good luck with this post Al! I hope you get some straight answers but from the look of thinks they will stick to their regular ranting about Rudy.