Utah mall gunman was Srebenica survivor

cnn.com ^ | 12/15/07 | cnn

[Serb29]

CERSKA, Bosnia (Reuters) -- The 18-year-old gunman who shot five people to death in a Salt Lake City, Utah, shopping mall was a survivor of the siege that ended in the Srebrenica massacre of 8,000 Muslims in Bosnia's 1992-95 war, a cousin said on Wednesday. Sulejman Talovic, who was killed by police after Monday's shooting spree in which he also wounded four people, fled his village with his family during the Bosnia war to Srebrenica, a U.N.-protected enclave, Redzo Talovic said." "They spent two years in the town, during which Bosnian Serb forces besieged the enclave and Talovic's grandfather was killed by shellfire, Redzo Talovic said. When the Bosnian Serbs overran the town in 1995, taking away and massacring some 8,000 Muslim men and boys, Talovic and his mother were evacuated by the United Nations and later reunited with his father, Redzo Talovic said. "They were a good, quiet family, and I remember that he was a nice kid when he was 4 or 5, maybe a little bit playful," he said, standing in front of the burned-out shell of the Talovic family home in the village of Talovici, eastern Bosnia.

[lqclamar]

See #59 for a case in point of what I just described. The loyalty of organized Balkan muslim soldiers and organizations during WWII was overwhelmingly Nazi, yet instead of acknowledging that fact his only response is to attempt to draw equivalency with Christian Germans who joined the Nazi army.

Nevermind that most Christian clerics opposed the Nazis.

Nevermind that most nazi leaders practiced pagan occultist beliefs rather than Christianity.

Nevermind that hundreds of thousands of Christians were massacred in the Holocaust. Nevermind that the nazis systematically targetted Catholics, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, and Jehovah's Witnesses for genocide. Nevermind that they rounded up priests and ministers by the thousands and sent them to the gas chambers.

In zimdog's fantasy world, German Christian enlistees in Hitler's army are simply a tool of moral equivalency with which he hopes to counteract a fact that he would rather not admit or acknowledge. That fact is that Hitler and Himmler personally befriended one of the highest ranking muslim clerics in the world, enlisted his help in exterminating the Jews, and used his network of thousands of other nazi-sympathizing imams to raise all-muslim Waffen-SS units in the service of the Reich.

[lqclamar]

#60 - Yet another case in point, and this one's particularly absurd. He accuses me of "baseless allegations" for pointing out his recurring tactic of excusing jihadis with the "Christian atrocity" card...IMMEDIATELY AFTER HE DID JUST THAT IN POST #59 to excuse the muslim nazis!

Knowing this particular poster's tactics, he is also probably frantically hitting the abuse button with frivolous complaints against me that claim I "misrepresented" him by describing his moral equivalency arguments, even though he just left one in plain view for all to see.

[zimdog]

In zimdog's fantasy world, German Christian enlistees in Hitler's army are simply a tool of moral equivalency with which he hopes to counteract a fact that he would rather not admit or acknowledge. That fact is that Hitler and Himmler personally befriended one of the highest ranking muslim clerics in the world, enlisted his help in exterminating the Jews, and used his network of thousands of other nazi-sympathizing imams to raise all-muslim Waffen-SS units in the service of the Reich.

I am showing the weakness of your logic. You claim that the existence of 21,000 Muslim troops in the SS proves that Muslims = Nazis, but you find it absurd when I that same "logic" is applied to the millions of Christian troops in the German army.

Nevermind that most Muslims opposed the Nazis.

Nevermind that most nazi leaders practiced pagan occultist beliefs rather than Islam.

Nevermind the, what was it again, 180,000 West African Muslim troops who enlisted to fight the Nazis.

For you an SS division of Muslims is all you need to believe that all Muslims or all Balkan Muslims supported the Nazis. However, 37 SS divisions of Christians is not sufficient.

I'll admit, frankly, that your argument against this strawman is sound. Unfortunately for you, the strawman is entirely of your own construction.

And PS -- there is no global ranking of Sunni clerics.

[eleni121]

"In zimdog's fantasy world"

---

That is the operative descriptor here.

Zimdog's gripes with her/his own delusions about Christians leads him/her down the path of morbidly bizarre fantasy.

He/she reveals all that hate in his weird responses.

[zimdog]

#60 - Yet another case in point, and this one's particularly absurd. He accuses me of "baseless allegations" for pointing out his recurring tactic of excusing jihadis with the "Christian atrocity" card...IMMEDIATELY AFTER HE DID JUST THAT IN POST #59 to excuse the muslim nazis!

I accuse you of baseless allegations because your allegations are baseless.

Furthermore, I have never excused Nazis in my life.

Your arguments might carry more wait if you distinguished between "Muslims" and "jihadi" but if you accuse every Muslim alive of murder (which you seem to do) then it stands to reason that people who defend innocent Muslims against your libel will be accused of "defending jihadis" by you.

Knowing this particular poster's tactics, he is also probably frantically hitting the abuse button with frivolous complaints against me that claim I "misrepresented" him by describing his moral equivalency arguments, even though he just left one in plain view for all to see.

I've done no such thing.

And furthermore, if you want to respond to my posts, the manly thing is to respond directly and not hide behind eleni21's skirts.

[zimdog]

I'll remind you madame, that you're the one on this thread who has attempted to deny or trivialize war crimes.

good day.

[eleni121]

Muslims joined Tito's partisan movement

---

Absolutely! The nature of Islam is intricately involved with Nazism and Communism - both morbidly utopian teleological systems of belief. Most of the head honchos of Tito's early years were Muslims and Croats...not Serbs.

An example: Hoxha - the big time Commie in Albania was a muslim.

[zimdog]

An example: Hoxha - the big time Commie in Albania was a muslim.

FYI: Hoxha's Albania was an officially atheistic state and all religion was outlawed.

[eleni121]

Zim----NO amount of your ignorant grandstanding will change the simple fact that Islam and Nazism and Communism are systems of belief inherently evil. Anyone who subscribes to these ideologies is evil inherently.

Got it monsieur?

[eleni121]

FYI: Hoxha was born and bred a Muslim. Easy transition into Maoism. Both utopian teleological ideologies...one with moon god and one without.

[zimdog]

Interesting that you think the Muslim troops that fought to liberate Europe from fascist are "inherently evil"

[lqclamar]

Zim's illogical attempts at moral equivalency continue...

Nevermind that most Muslims opposed the Nazis.

Wrong. The nazis were supported by organized imam-sanctioned muslim troop units. Some muslims individually sided with the Serbs, yet they produced no comparable organized muslim opposition to the nazis.

Nevermind that most nazi leaders practiced pagan occultist beliefs rather than Islam.

...more intentional misdirection. Hitler himself, though an occultist, personally sympathized with islam while publicly detesting Christianity. Thus came Hitler's statement comparing the two religions: "I can imagine people being enthusiastic about the paradise of Mahomet, but as for the insipid paradise of the Christians! In your lifetime, you used to hear the music of Richard Wagner. After your death, it will be nothing but hallelujahs, the waving of palms, children of an age for the feeding-bottle, and hoary old men. The man of the isles pays homage to the forces of nature. But Christianity is an invention of sick brains."

Nevermind the, what was it again, 180,000 West African Muslim troops who enlisted to fight the Nazis.

...the above is an unsourced claim he has been making for some time about French colonial troops from Africa. Every time he has been asked for specific sources on his numbers they have either been less than reputable or evasive. Of course this figure, even if accepted, (1) has nothing to do with the Balkans, (2) fought on the war's periphery as opposed to the middle of Europe, (3) did not enlist as exclusively muslim units, (4) did not enlist with the sanction of one of the highest ranking muslim clerics in the world, and (5) did not consistently support the allies, as most of the predominantly muslim colonies of France were loyal to the nazi-supporting Vichy regime for the first half of the war.

For you an SS division of Muslims is all you need to believe that all Muslims or all Balkan Muslims supported the Nazis. However, 37 SS divisions of Christians is not sufficient.

...more diversion by moral equivalency. Of course even here he is being deceptive as those 37 divisions were not explicitly Christian. He simply assumes that since they were Germans, they were also Christians when in fact many of them are known to have been either atheist or nordic occultists like Hitler himself. By contrast, the 13th Waffen was an explictly muslim unit that displayed an Islamic crescent scimitar on its banner and was publicly sanctioned by the islamic clergy.

[eleni121]

Muslim troops that fought to liberate Europe

---

LOL. What a bizarre macchiavelian rewriting of history. You ought to apply for a job at Jazeera or the quaeda folks.

[eleni121]

Zimy -- I insist that you study post 72 for some education.

[zimdog]

That's just history. I'm sorry that you too much of a bigot to accept it.

Castts doubt on the rest of your historical statements.

[lqclamar]

Don't buy his "muslim French troops" line. He's been beating that drum for a while, yet he never produces reliable or specific numbers. He cannot even tell you which units were muslim, how many muslims they contained, when they enlisted, where they fought, or where they disbanded.

His stat is all a numbers game based on the African colonial troops under De Gaulle in the French colonies. He insists that it represents muslim troops, even though most of the muslim French colonies were loyal to Vichy for the first half of the war. De Gualle was based in the southern French colonies, which were predominantly Christian or pagan.

Hitler, by contrast, had formal and close relations with high ranking Islamic clergy and raised openly Islamic units such as the Balkan muslim SS division. Hitler also attempted to set up a Muslim Nazi regime in Iraq. He recruited a muslim general there to rebel against the British in 1941, again with the help of the ubiquitous Nazi Mufti al-Husseini.

[lqclamar]

I think we've found what Baghdad Bob's been doing since the Saddam regime fell - he's here posting on FR about the great muslim armies that stormed the beaches at Normandy!

[lqclamar]

Zimmy would have us believe that north African jihadis were instrumental in "liberating" France.

This is a bunch of nonsense of course, but I would not want to denigrate the real African heroes who fought for the allies in WWII. So here's a photo of one of them:

[lqclamar]

Regarding his constant frivolous abuse reports, zimmy states "I've done no such thing."

Be warned. His posting history conclusively shows otherwise...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1784750/posts?page=101#101

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1779820/posts?page=127#127

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1779820/posts?page=123#123

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1779820/posts?page=95#95

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1779671/posts?page=36#36

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1779671/posts?page=35#35

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753652/posts?page=490#490

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753652/posts?page=481#481

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753652/posts?page=49#49

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753652/posts?page=47#47

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753652/posts?page=45#45

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753652/posts?page=40#40

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753652/posts?page=26#26

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753652/posts?page=21#21

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1752677/posts?page=19#19

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1752677/posts?page=16#16

[eleni121]

Don't buy his "muslim French troops" line.

---

The General - Patton - never mentions them (muslims) at all in his memoirs/letters referring to North Africa except to ridicule them.


No I do not buy Zimmy's dhimmitudes.